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Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

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141–150 of 293 posts

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#141
There is a leadership book called "First Break all the Rules - What the World's Greatest Managers Do Differently". It's data driven by a large meta-survey and research project.

One of the conclusions was that, essentially, the normal instinct with Performance Management to focus on improving weaknesses is wrong and leads to sub-optimal outcomes. The best managers actually doubled down on each individuals strengths, and simply accepted weaknesses as something to be smoothed out to the minimally acceptable level. (e.g. someone may not be "good with people", but they can't be openly hostile with co-workers.) Instead the manager would look for another employee which had that weakness as a strength, and manage responsibilities appropriately.

It speaks exactly to what was wrong in OP's experience.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#142

If you put yourself in your managers shoes, what are the demands and most important goals that need to be achieved? Sometimes the reality of the situation is less than perfect and you can't personally blame them for it. I've seen backend developers forced to do UI work when they absolutely did not want to and our manager was very blunt about the fact that we didn't have the resources to get a FE developer, or even th…

>After that conversation, the BE dev. did the mature thing and got on with it.

Sure. At least for the near-term, get on with it after you've had the discussion. However, if you're being compensated as someone with a lot of experience in an area and you dropped into something quite different, sure you can learn and certainly some skills and experience are transferable--but you may still be performing at a significantly lower level than before for least at a decent period.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#143
post #78

The real problem here is that hiring is a giant pain for both sides. In an ideal world, you would quickly quit that job and hop to another. If you didn't do that, they would quickly hire you and both sides would move on without much stress. But changing jobs/employees is a big deal involved insurance, retirement funds, dozens of hours of interviews over many weeks, etc. My advice for anyone in this spot is to quit qu…

Also if you quit quickly, you can leave it off your resume. This is especially valuable to squeeze in extra chances to join the right startup as an employee, over your career, in between the 2-4+ year stretches engaging deeply in the good growthful roles.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#144
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how this works in the US but here in Germany your work contract roughly specifies what you do for work.. so for a software engineer it would be developing software and similar tasks. Cleaning break room fridges would not be an acceptable task. You sure could say yes and comply if you like cleaning fridges but usually people would probably just say no thanks. If you just exaggerated to make a point I agre…

I took it as an exaggeration to make a point. They're unlikely to ask you to do that--or to pay you for doing so. But within the broad confines of developer, or product manager, or technical marketer, the is a wide range of roles and responsibilities. If you've been working on a mainframe and your employer decides to retire it but is happy to put you on some front-end web stuff which you've never touched, that's prob…

> If you've been working on a mainframe and your employer decides to retire it but is happy to put you on some front-end web stuff which you've never touched, that's probably going to be a tough adjustment that may not end well.

Sure nice of them to give you that chance rather than just laying you off though. Would be even nicer if they spent a little money to train you on the front-end web stuff. Employers used to do that sort of the thing all the time - retrain known good workers rather than just fire them and hire new (unknown) ones.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#145

This simple equation will change your life: n=((y-1920)-a)/(0.25*a) where y is the current year (e.g., 2022), a is your age in years, and n is the number of careers you have ahead of you. Quit!

So in the year 3000, a 20-year old has over 200 careers ahead of them?

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sort of agree. Jobs usually have aspects that seem unrewarding. But if you spend most of your time cleaning break rooms then it doesn't let you grow the type of skills needed to land a SWE salary at the next place.

I can and do practice those things in my own time. I love my craft I love to excel at it. I have a period of time coming up where I will not work for several weeks (still paid though), during this time I am planning on working through The Art of Computer Programming and learning mobile development. The responsibility for me to keep my skills sharp is upon me not my employer.

You may eventually have other commitments (e.g., wife and children) that make that somewhat impractical.

It's important to guard your career.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#147
> But the reality is that growth only works when you build on someone's strengths.

Respectfully disagree. Growth comes from going beyond what you're comfortable with.

Also not sure this is "ungrowth" and more a general misallocation of human capital. Good bosses are proactive, yes, but that doesn't mean randomly messing with team dynamics and roles like you're a chemist trying to find the philosopher's stone.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#148
post #144
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took it as an exaggeration to make a point. They're unlikely to ask you to do that--or to pay you for doing so. But within the broad confines of developer, or product manager, or technical marketer, the is a wide range of roles and responsibilities. If you've been working on a mainframe and your employer decides to retire it but is happy to put you on some front-end web stuff which you've never touched, that's prob…

> If you've been working on a mainframe and your employer decides to retire it but is happy to put you on some front-end web stuff which you've never touched, that's probably going to be a tough adjustment that may not end well. Sure nice of them to give you that chance rather than just laying you off though. Would be even nicer if they spent a little money to train you on the front-end web stuff. Employers used to d…

And there's certainly a push for more retraining currently although we'll see to what degree it happens.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#149

Personally I think the concept of growth is a scam to get people to work harder for less. You can certainly grow your skill set, but intelligent people can rise to the occasion in most jobs. Including CEO/Director/High level decision making jobs. Everytime I have received some insultingly low offer from a startup, they start talking about "growth", "what I can own", "wearing many hats". Meanwhile, the founder is sitt…

Yes, my biggest problem with how promotion processes work at big companies is this. How you're supposed to perform at your currently level is pretty well spelled out by your manager - exactly what your expectations are, etc. However, you're supposed to perform at the "next level" prior to being promoted. Expectations are less clear here. This leads to you doing a lot of things you think will get you a promotion (most…

successfully get someone to agree with your performance at current job: 5% raise and more than 5% more responsibility

successfully get another job: 30% raise and no increase in responsibility

anybody married to their current management is contributing to the wage gap

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#150

One of my problems is that I like to write code. Specifically novel code. But the places I work at really want me to just do regular CRUD work and glue work (use other people's code and avoid novel code). How do I find companies that write their own cool new code? Maybe coding teams get broken down into such small teams that there is only room for CRUD and glue and novel code gets too risky when trying to deliver use…

I recommend the pharma industry or any other science-heavy field.

It's sort of hit and miss, but sometimes you get a research project where it's the experimental results which make or break the whole thing - your role is to support the experiment with the software you write.

Example, since this may sound too vague: I'm currently in a project that started off as a research paper and associated Matlab code.

Problem is, you can't ship this to people who just want to see the results and don't have the proper computing power on their work laptops to perform the necessary calculations, so we built a whole web app which does all that at scale.

Other times you do a boring compliance/business application, but such projects are usually timeboxed and with unchanging scope.

Example: 9-months, 11 devs and the result was an app where the user clicked a button once a month which made the backend talk to 15 different APIs that in concert created the last section of a 2k page PDF file because regulations said so.

Boring as hell but it was over soon enough and even got an internal award for "least(zero) complaints".

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