Don't Be A Free User • Hacker News Board

Re: Don't Be A Free User

#161

Post by phillmv » Wed, Dec 07, 2011, 4:33 PM UTC

ahoyhere wrote: post #160

phillmv wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But the fact is, within 3.5 or so years, Freckle would have brought in that much revenue anyway. And then it would KEEP bringing in more, forever. So… straight up your expected value was higher than the offered acquisition price ;). If they offered you more revenue than you expected to make in 10 years, instead of 3.5, you might rethink the offer. Different strokes for different folks. Maybe in 3.5 years you'll be t…

At its current run rate, 10 years would be $2.5 mil. Except it's growing. I expect it to be earning $500k/yr run rate within 24 mos. And like I said, we could leave it alone and it would still continue to grow. There have been times, while we were still consulting, where we completely abandoned it for months (didn't even answer support emails) and it just chugged along. These days when we're not adding features, we s…

>We could hire a full-time support person and let them handle it and still have about $400k net (taxable) left over after other expenses, basically forever. Doing nothing.

WELL… if you ain't busy growing, you're busy dying. It's not going to be Forever. Once your current customer acquisition rate drops, you'll start to lose revenue by just normal attrition.

Good luck to you, though! Sounds like an amazingly sweet gig you two have built and I wish you the best.

Re: Don't Be A Free User

#162

Post by ahoyhere » Wed, Dec 07, 2011, 4:51 PM UTC

phillmv wrote: post #161

ahoyhere wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At its current run rate, 10 years would be $2.5 mil. Except it's growing. I expect it to be earning $500k/yr run rate within 24 mos. And like I said, we could leave it alone and it would still continue to grow. There have been times, while we were still consulting, where we completely abandoned it for months (didn't even answer support emails) and it just chugged along. These days when we're not adding features, we s…

>We could hire a full-time support person and let them handle it and still have about $400k net (taxable) left over after other expenses, basically forever. Doing nothing. WELL… if you ain't busy growing, you're busy dying. It's not going to be Forever. Once your current customer acquisition rate drops, you'll start to lose revenue by just normal attrition. Good luck to you, though! Sounds like an amazingly sweet gig…

Thanks :)

Thing is, you're right about attrition except for one thing: Freckle gains customers even when we neglect it entirely, through word of mouth. So it holds pretty steady even with total neglect.

Re: Don't Be A Free User

#163

Post by gruseom » Wed, Dec 07, 2011, 5:15 PM UTC

joshu wrote: post #80

hyyypr wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly do you have against delicious' new interface ? I continue using it as I always did, and except for the design I barely see any difference. Maybe I'm missing some key feature here ?

I'm struggling with it. Commas instead of spaces for tags breaks my muscle memory. It often saves my bookmarks with no tags at all because of it. I am continually tempted to rewrite it (or, more likely, its predecessor, which did more for fewer users.)

I wish you would.

Yahoo's one was slow and a dead-end but enough good remained that I could get by.

This one is incoherent and sloppy. It doesn't feel like the people developing it have much understanding of (or passion for) the space.

Re: Don't Be A Free User

#164

Post by mcantor » Wed, Dec 07, 2011, 5:31 PM UTC

kiba wrote: post #20

Anti-free software? I don't think free software is antithetical to the movement for charging a leg and an arm. The hard part is figuring out how to charge an arm and a leg for open source software. However, everyone take the easy way out by closing down on mission critical and open source the rest. I thought of a possible solution that allow everyone to charge an arm and leg while still being open source, or even pub…

Anti-free software? I don't think free software is antithetical to the movement for charging a leg and an arm.

I think he meant "free as in beer", not "free as in speech".

Re: Don't Be A Free User

#165

Post by mcantor » Wed, Dec 07, 2011, 5:35 PM UTC

rradu wrote: post #123

Do people just like paying for things? If a company can find a way to make money off ads and keep the product free, I'll gladly take that over paying a subscription fee.

I like paying for things.

I'd rather pay $5 - $50 for a mobile app than see ads.

Re: Don't Be A Free User

#166

Post by jarek » Wed, Dec 07, 2011, 5:57 PM UTC

amalcon wrote: post #157

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't disagree more. Startups just going away over night is _the_ major objection I hear from business users (small and large) against using any of these products. Purely consumer oriented entertainment kind of apps may be a different matter, but for anything else consumers are very apprehensive when there is any talk of losing access to an app they rely on. Unlike geeks, they can't just take some CSV dump and m…

I know a guy who runs a small web hosting business. He has actually gotten this question: "If you die, what happens to my website?"

This is a very valid question, and I hope he has a good answer.

Re: Don't Be A Free User

#167

Post by fuckmoney » Wed, Dec 07, 2011, 6:24 PM UTC

Wikipedia?

"Like a service? Make them charge you or show you ads. If they won't do it, clone them and do it yourself. Soon you'll be the only game in town! "

If a free website service shuts down you can make your own.

Being competitive and ruthless may work financially but it isn't right and unlike a corporation in constant pursuit of profit an owner of a free website is free to act morally and avoid monetary perversion.

I'd prefer if websites were a little less stable than if the internet was exclusively for the rich by the rich.

Re: Don't Be A Free User

#168

Post by nknight » Wed, Dec 07, 2011, 6:29 PM UTC

ComputerGuru wrote: post #117

nknight wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Untrusted native code isn't strictly necessary. There is no need for locally-run software to be in any particular form, so long as it doesn't depend on the developer's server to function. Java bytecode is excellent precedent for what is broadly possible. There are problems with it, but most of what's missing for the end user is a better degree of convenience and control.

I think iOS software is a better example. There's no reason they can't be hosted in a Safari page, and they're rich while still being sandboxed.

Actually, the iOS model isn't that great IMO. Rather than relying on verifiably safe bytecode, Apple uses a combination of TrustedBSD-based technology on the phone, and human-directed testing in their labs, in an attempt to keep native code from doing things they don't want it to.

I think this is backwards for what they're trying to achieve, and I think that's part of the reason their app review process is such a pain in the ass.

Re: Don't Be A Free User

#169

Post by MarkTraceur » Wed, Dec 07, 2011, 7:37 PM UTC

teaspoon wrote: post #21

nknight wrote: post #11

He keeps saying "free software", and also says "anti-free software movement". He means "free service", which is a radically different scenario from "free software" in either sense, and should be treated as such. Whether we're talking about Free software or just freeware, the user's use of a normal piece of software on their computer doesn't suddenly disappear when the developer goes away.

From the article: But free web services are not like free software. If your free software project suddenly gets popular, you gain resources: testers, developers and people willing to pitch in. If your free website takes off, you lose resources.

But that argument is also flawed--free software in web applications is possible through other forms of revenue generation. Advertisements, services related to the product, in-app purchases....none of those options are precluded simply because the company chooses to respect their users. In fact, those options become a lot more prevalent, since there's no longer any payment for the service. But since the users saved that money, they will probably pay more for the extras--and they'll certainly be happy that they're allowed to change the product. This will also benefit the original site, since they get the changes made by everyone else.

Re: Don't Be A Free User

#170

Post by mst » Wed, Dec 07, 2011, 8:15 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #148

drhayes9 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amy Hoy is a big proponent of bootstrapping. Her 30x500 class seems to rock (according to the sample materials she has out there), and she has some choice words on the subject: http://unicornfree.com/2011/fuck-glory-startups-are-one-long...

Rob Walling's "Start Small, Stay Small" is pretty good too, and has less gratuitous profanity.

I think I'd argue that the profanity is for effect/emphasis, and to mark the post out as a rant - it's clearly (to me) being used intentionally as a writing technique.

Which suggests 'gratuitous' is a harsher adjective than strictly requires, and may simply reflect that you aren't fond of profanity's use at all.

I think either dropping the word entirely from your comment or perhaps replacing it with 'prolific', which would not only have been non-judegemental while still conveying the key point, but additionally alliterates nicely too.

Or maybe I'm just overthinking this :)