American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants • Hacker News Board

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#211

Post by ethbr0 » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 8:37 PM UTC

TallGuyShort wrote: post #162

OJFord wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the reality is that scraping is legal, always possible, but difficult. > This particular case is a bit harder since it's not purely using public data, but may still qualify since it's likely scraping with legally-obtained credentials. No, it's easy: they're employees, they can be told they're not allowed to do that. Doesn't matter if the app's legally allowed to exist or not.

I'm not sure I interpret the article or the parent comment as saying American Airlines isn't allowed to do this. They're just making life harder for their employees and dont seem to be addressing the problem they're working around. It's just a little whistleblowing that they're a shitty employer. I think what the parent comment is trying to say is that their description of their approach here as "sophisticated bot de…

This is the company that is also currently sueing ThePointsGuy over an app that helps you manage your AAdvantage (loyalty) points.

Suffice it to say, American Airlines IT are apparently a bunch of dicks.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#212

Post by rootsudo » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 8:37 PM UTC

RockRobotRock wrote: post #204

GlenTheMachine wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our IT security people give every impression that their preferred solution would be to drop all the computers in the river and lock the doors. I naively went to them once with a suspected security intrusion event; they threatened to have me arrested. I couldn't convince them that I wasn't the one responsible.

At a previous company I worked, my team (system’s infrastructure) would purposefully avoid the cyber security team, and even attempt to sweep security issues under the rug, because they were so awful to work with.

Can't say any intrusion happen if you don't accept reports or investigate anything. :D

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#213

Post by cwkoss » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 8:43 PM UTC

Are American Airlines workers unionized? I wonder if they could collaborate with their union and get additional protections to workers' ability to access this data portably.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#214

Post by YeBanKo » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 8:48 PM UTC

arciini wrote: post #21

I'm sad that this is happening to an app that's useful to its users, but the reality is that scraping is legal, always possible, but difficult. This particular case is a bit harder since it's not purely using public data, but may still qualify since it's likely scraping with legally-obtained credentials. I know of businesses (scraping for ride-sharing, scraping for business intelligence for retailers, scraping from L…

Playing devil’s advocate here: this is not the same as scraping LinkedIn data. Linkedin data is public. This app requires a login info from a flight attendants to scrape their schedules. When you try to log in, you can choose to login as public or as a AA flight attendant. It sucks, but I also understand why a company may be unhappy, that a third party handles credentials and accesses internal data. What they can:

- build a 3rd part integration API, which opens up a whole can of worms. Not many tech-first companies can do it right, for an airline it’s a very challenging steps.

- build their own, but they already failed there if their employees turn to 3rd party

- ignore and let it run. This is basically unauthorized access to go and hope that the guy names Jeff won’t screw up.

- deny and prevent access. This is probably technically the easiest and safest from legal standpoint.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#215

Post by brewdad » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 8:57 PM UTC

yamtaddle wrote: post #202

kleiba wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Landgren would dig through endless convoluted menus to find out what his children were doing at school. If working out what his children needed in their gym kit was a hassle, then working out how to report them as sick was a nightmare. This seems very removed from my own school days: - find out what the children were doing at school : you couldn't, really, the curricula were not public. You could ask your kids after…

I truly think computerized school communication is worse than notes in backpacks and the occasional mailed letter. They send way too much useless shit, way too often, so you end up ignoring a lot of it; use way too many channels to do it; design sites poorly—how about the year's calendar on the first page for a given school, above "the fold", with a link to subscribe your preferred calendaring software to it, right t…

The online gradebook was the "new thing" that I found to be a nightmare as a parent. The idea was that parents could log in to verify students are turning in their homework or get a heads up before the parent-teacher conferences if their child's grades are suffering.

The reality is that some teachers are good about getting assignments and test results input in a timely manner. Some wait and do weeks worth of assignments in one batch. Others input all of the term's assignments at the beginning and add results as they get turned in/graded, meaning student grades gradually move from failing to the final earned grade once the last exam result is added. The grades shown on the online portal had nearly nothing to do with the reality in the classroom and ended up being counterproductive. I'm glad I no longer have to deal with that system.

Worse yet, many parents of college age students expect their university to offer this same portal, despite the fact that it would be illegal for schools to do so without written permission from the student. It's been eye-opening to see parents on one message board I follow furious that they can't know their student's grades up to the minute. I can't imagine how awful those parent-child relationships must be.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#216

Post by Firmwarrior » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 8:58 PM UTC

smcl wrote: post #198

Firmwarrior wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (casually implies kids have multiple workout outfits/shoes and regularly engage in expensive outdoor activities) Man, sometimes I'll run into a reminder that I grew up poor as dirt, haha

Ah come on "multiple workout outfits" is a little bit of a stretch of what I said. Everything I described except for the skiing stuff is normal in anything but the very poorest countries - in addition to what you listed, you didn't have a jumper for when it's cold or some old trainers for when it's muddy? I just wore my normal shorts for football whenever we went swimming (fyi my school didn't have a pool, but some d…

To be fair, I had everything I wanted, which was food, shelter, access to a powerful personal computer, and a lot of old sci-fi books. If other kids had all been equipped like you describe and I'd asked, my parents probably could have scrounged that stuff up for me.

I just wore my regular clothes to class and gym class, although in winter I'd change into shorts instead of exercising in jeans. I had a coat that I wore on the walk to school and one pair of shoes. Sometimes I'd have boots, but my family could only afford/only knew about cheap crap boots that'd disintegrate pretty quickly.

It blows my mind again and again living in the SF Bay Area nowadays, watching a brand new BMW pull up to Starbucks and unload a bunch of teenagers who proceed to buy $40 worth of coffee and snacks. Those dang kids don't know how good they got it! I grew up near the poverty line in the USA, so I can only imagine what it's like for engineers who grew up in actual poverty in other parts of the world.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#217

Post by smcl » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 9:14 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #207

smcl wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah come on "multiple workout outfits" is a little bit of a stretch of what I said. Everything I described except for the skiing stuff is normal in anything but the very poorest countries - in addition to what you listed, you didn't have a jumper for when it's cold or some old trainers for when it's muddy? I just wore my normal shorts for football whenever we went swimming (fyi my school didn't have a pool, but some d…

Cross-country skiing is cheap and affordable for nearly anyone. All you need is a pair of used skis, a pair of boots, and the ability to bum a ride from a friend. Downhill skiing is the bourgie hobby.

Well it's a bougie hobby if you fly every year with your private school to Switzerland, and get a new set of skis (deliberately exaggerating of course, it can be various levels of bougie). Cross-country is definitely cheaper (no ski pass, skis are generally cheaper) but there are plenty of places where affordable ski slopes are nearby and it's normal for someone working in (for example) a pub to own a set of skis, and be able to head out with some friends for a day of skiing

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#218

Post by DiggyJohnson » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 9:18 PM UTC

Brian_K_White wrote: post #197

OJFord wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why it reads as 'defending [the employer]'s position', but that's not my position, I don't care at all. (I'm not American, I may very well never have anything to do with the airline even as a customer.) If you are its employee, jolly good luck to you with your 'well if I were blind what I've been provided with while not blind would not be adequate and I might need to use a different tool to this which wo…

"I'm not sure why it reads as 'defending [the employer]'s position'" Saying that the employer has the right to dictate those terms is literally and explicitly doing nothing else but defending their position that they have the right to dictate those terms.

You’re making the classic mistake of confusing explanation for defense. It happens all the time with the Ukraine crisis as well.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#219

Post by bronco21016 » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 9:18 PM UTC

dzhiurgis wrote: post #188

gnopgnip wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AA Flight attendants are in a union working under a collective bargaining agreement. The employer can’t just change this unilaterally.

Mere threat to strike for a day would make AA to buy out developer for millions of $.

Airline workers are covered under the Railway Labor Act in the US. They can’t just strike because they’re unhappy. There’s a long drawn out process before a strike can happen. See recent threats of railway workers striking in the US.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#220

Post by OJFord » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 9:35 PM UTC

Brian_K_White wrote: post #197

OJFord wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why it reads as 'defending [the employer]'s position', but that's not my position, I don't care at all. (I'm not American, I may very well never have anything to do with the airline even as a customer.) If you are its employee, jolly good luck to you with your 'well if I were blind what I've been provided with while not blind would not be adequate and I might need to use a different tool to this which wo…

"I'm not sure why it reads as 'defending [the employer]'s position'" Saying that the employer has the right to dictate those terms is literally and explicitly doing nothing else but defending their position that they have the right to dictate those terms.

They can 'dictate those terms' - doesn't mean I think it's good! (Doesn't mean I don't either, I haven't commented on it!)