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Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

theintercept.com

71–77 of 77 posts

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#71
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. They could be using it to plant wildflowers: https://texashillcountry.com/shotgun-flower-shell/

exactly, it could even shoot little bits of confetti that say bang, or all sorts of non lethal things that would 100% stop the fight w/o killing.

They could use “dragon’s breath” rounds to safely start controlled burns!

https://www.cdvs.us/product/12-gauge-dragons-breath/

To be fair, that would imply a realistic approach to wildfire management, so it’s much less likely than the wildflowers thing.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no snark in that comment. It is proper and appropriate.

Michael's use was congruent with exigency's meaning--there was no reason for samfbiddle to suggest Michael didn't understand the word, particularly while ignoring Michael's actual point (that Officer Turner wasn't the department's spokesperson). samfbiddle's comment was neither proper nor appropriate. Note also that samfbiddle similarly accused another commenter upthread of not reading his article (without evidence)…

This is an old, well established pattern, but it is embarrassing that this kind of irrelevant idiocy is so often destined to greet authors and subject matter experts when they visit a message board discussing their work.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Michael's use was congruent with exigency's meaning--there was no reason for samfbiddle to suggest Michael didn't understand the word, particularly while ignoring Michael's actual point (that Officer Turner wasn't the department's spokesperson). samfbiddle's comment was neither proper nor appropriate. Note also that samfbiddle similarly accused another commenter upthread of not reading his article (without evidence)…

This is an old, well established pattern, but it is embarrassing that this kind of irrelevant idiocy is so often destined to greet authors and subject matter experts when they visit a message board discussing their work.

> This is an old, well established pattern, but it is embarrassing that this kind of irrelevant idiocy is so often destined to greet authors and subject matter experts when they visit a message board discussing their work.

Yes, this sort of bikeshedding is the cost of clickbait titles--seems like this could all go away if authors/editors stopped using clickbait titles; not sure why we should sneer at the community for highlighting the misleading headline. Moreover, such sneering violates the site guidelines:

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

(emphasis mine)

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#74
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I am sure that a drug cartel that can produce submarines[1] or drones[2] could manage an RC shotgun bot, but I am skeptical that you'd see them being used widely, compared to just handing a gun to someone? 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-submarine 2: https://news.yahoo.com/drug-cartels-attack-enemies-spread-17...

i think thats because, noone has been aggreiviated,[harmed enough enough to want to do it]. if it became common usage to strap a firearm to a drone of some sort, then that looks like a contemporary use, and perhaps private citizens would commonly use armed drones to patrol property and provide a personal bodyguard.

I am sure people would consider it, you're right. Somehow it seems like a riskier step then getting a vicious dog, given that a glitching defense-bot could shoot you or your family, or your neighbors, package delivery people, etc. Also I am not sure too many people would have the technical skill to build their own, so unless they became a product (with serious, serious liability insurance problems...) it's hard for me to picture them becoming popular somewhere like the US.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#75
Killbots disrupt the suspension of disbelief that we currently use to excuse many killings by law enforcement: We find it morally acceptable for someone to use deadly force to protect themselves, and we use this to shortcut a more extensive analysis of the morality of killings by law enforcement.

In many cases the deadly force wasn't actually necessary or the need was so absurdly induced by the wielder that they should be culpable by the outcome. But the line is really hard to see when you weren't there, in their shoes, so we tend to defer judgement. At the very minimum this does provide a limited check on the use of deadly force.

For a killbot it couldn't be more clear: the operators life was not at risk, erasing the fiction that it was automatically excusable for personal protection and forcing us to justify the killing on a more complex basis.

Not that we can't-- I think sometimes we could, but probably in many situations we can't. E.g. right now, a gunman "safely" barricaded in a house eventually gets stormed in and killed. In a killbot equipped world, I don't think we could morally send in a killbot-- I think we'd have to wait for them to try to escape at least. And if we couldn't kill them with a killbot, well then that opens questions about the morality of doing the same thing with people.

I'd feel better about bots with less lethal weapons: nets, incapacitating gasses, tranquilizer darts, stun guns, etc. They may be radically less effective but one of the advantages of keeping the operator safe from harm is that a less effective weapon is easier to justify: its failure won't get the operator killed.

Aside, -- the specific application here with an interchangeable cartage just sounds like asking for trouble when someone leaves the wrong munition loaded.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#76
I don’t understand why they don’t use a tranquilizer gun. There’s no need to murder people with a remote-control robot when you could just knock them out instead. Or use the sticky silly-string stuff that immobilizes them. Or a concussion grenade. Or taser.

So many (usually) non-lethal options but, no, they choose kill. I guess the big advantage is that there’ll be no need for subsequent prosecution. Handy, that.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#77
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think thats because, noone has been aggreiviated,[harmed enough enough to want to do it]. if it became common usage to strap a firearm to a drone of some sort, then that looks like a contemporary use, and perhaps private citizens would commonly use armed drones to patrol property and provide a personal bodyguard.

I am sure people would consider it, you're right. Somehow it seems like a riskier step then getting a vicious dog, given that a glitching defense-bot could shoot you or your family, or your neighbors, package delivery people, etc. Also I am not sure too many people would have the technical skill to build their own, so unless they became a product (with serious, serious liability insurance problems...) it's hard for m…

found this as a commercial example:

https://www.armadainternational.com/2017/10/dogo-ultra-light...

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