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Never trust a system that seems to be working

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Re: Never trust a system that seems to be working

#171

Also a good reminder why exceptions and optionals exist. Bonkers that "I didn't get a response" defaults to 0.

One thing I hated about working with Go. POSTed JSON bodies missing a field could not be distinguished from those where that field pointed was present and pointed to the empty value for that (an empty array or string or something). This may be entirely work-around-able and simply a failure of how that job worked, but it was a whole thing.

Re: Never trust a system that seems to be working

#172

A bit of an off-topic: I only ever saw white traffic lights in the US and Canada (specifically, pedestrian traffic lights) and they confused me a lot at first - the rest of the world uses green. The icons displayed (hands) are confusing too: the rest of the world uses an icon of a man walking or standing.

Don't know about Eastern Canada, but over in Western Canada, the only white signal light is the walking person symbol for cross walks. Otherwise, it's Red, Yellow, Green lights for the traffic, and a red hand or white walker for crossing the street.

Just figured I'd mention that.

Re: Never trust a system that seems to be working

#173

In the self-driving context, this reminds me strongly of Tesla Autopilot. Good enough to work most of the time, but likely would end up in greater overall injuries/accidents per mile if actually enabled at scale. Waymo, Cruise, Aurora, and others are doing it the right way.

Well, I was driving home yesterday, and the integrated navigation map of my car was randomly rotating 180 degrees every few moments, just long enough to be noticeable on-screen, but then flipped back.

I have no idea why (something in the compass integrated in the car? was GPS being hacked?). But the thought I kept having was "If I had a self-driving car, what would be the impact of this?". All I could think of was horrendous disasters for me and the other cars around me on the road.

Re: Never trust a system that seems to be working

#174
post #172

A bit of an off-topic: I only ever saw white traffic lights in the US and Canada (specifically, pedestrian traffic lights) and they confused me a lot at first - the rest of the world uses green. The icons displayed (hands) are confusing too: the rest of the world uses an icon of a man walking or standing.

Don't know about Eastern Canada, but over in Western Canada, the only white signal light is the walking person symbol for cross walks. Otherwise, it's Red, Yellow, Green lights for the traffic, and a red hand or white walker for crossing the street. Just figured I'd mention that.

I don't know that I've seen all of eastern Canada, but of the parts of it that I have seen the exact same is true.

Re: Never trust a system that seems to be working

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hand is to mimic that of a traffic cop. When they want you to stop, they hold up their hand to indicate that you need to stop. It used to be that you had to know english in order to understand them as well...many of the signs used to use the words "walk" and "don't walk"

I guess my point is that it was still confusing. It took me a day or two to acquire a reflex. It obviously doesn't matter in the long run - you just get used to it - but I wonder why would US & Canada go a different way with regards to so many small things (think turn signals on cars being red for american cars as another example)? What would be the rationale? It's as if the western hemisphere was completely cut off…

"It's as if the western hemisphere was completely cut off from the rest of the world and had no idea how others were doing things. I don't quite understand it."

Seems like you understand it fairly well. I can't speak for Canada, but the U.S. mostly ignores how other parts of the world do things.

Re: Never trust a system that seems to be working

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The older I get and the more systems I encounter, the more I'm convinced everything is in a state of failing. The question is only how long before it becomes noticable.

One of the consequences of this is when something goes very wrong, and the people involved say it really shouldn't have because something like 4 separate things have to fail at the same time for that to have happened. What they don't realise is that, thanks to the FFT, 2 of those 4 things actually failed over a year ago and the system has been continuing to work ever since without anyone ever noticing. One of the oth…

All of this is further exacerbated by the modern business take on capitalism of "optimize away work that doesn't positively produce".

Just because you're paying someone to go check and they don't find anything 99% of the time, you don't get rid of that. If you do, there goes the pnly sensor capable of propagating that signal to the rest of the control network. Applies equally well in electronics/circuits/or human domains.

Re: Never trust a system that seems to be working

#177
It’s really interesting how factorio problems are pretty much the same as multiprocessing/distributed systems problems. It just shows how universal and fundamental the idea of “work” and “workers” are. An engineer on my old team came up with a credit system to solve this problem, the receiver issues credits to the sender, which only sends when there is a credit available - this ends up with the same better failure mode that the article discovers and allows you to overlap communication with work.

Re: Never trust a system that seems to be working

#178

A bit of an off-topic: I only ever saw white traffic lights in the US and Canada (specifically, pedestrian traffic lights) and they confused me a lot at first - the rest of the world uses green. The icons displayed (hands) are confusing too: the rest of the world uses an icon of a man walking or standing.

I may be biased because I am used to the hand but I find the walk and hand shapes are very distinctive compared to the walk and stand. However green on walk would be nice.

I always assumed the pedestrian light was white to avoid confusion with the green traffic light for parallel drivers.

Re: Never trust a system that seems to be working

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess my point is that it was still confusing. It took me a day or two to acquire a reflex. It obviously doesn't matter in the long run - you just get used to it - but I wonder why would US & Canada go a different way with regards to so many small things (think turn signals on cars being red for american cars as another example)? What would be the rationale? It's as if the western hemisphere was completely cut off…

>I wonder why would US & Canada go a different way with regards to so many small things (think turn signals on cars being red for american cars as another example)? In many cases the US were the first to mass-manufacture things to some kind of standard, so the question is really: why did the rest of the world choose a different standard. Often they have a good reason (better design, maybe), but the US also has a good…

And standards don't adapt? To me this feels wrong and backwards

Re: Never trust a system that seems to be working

#180
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting I'm doing worse on Google Captchas because I consider pedestrian crossing lights as a form of traffic lights but Americans don't?

Best choices to pick on captcha are not what you think is pictured but what you think most people think is pictured.

Since about 60% of the visitors of most English-speaking websites are American, I assume that requires finding the American answer. But that requires me to jump not just a language barrier but also a cultural barrier to figure out nuances like "what constitutes a traffic light? Do pedestrian lights count? Do the poles and cables count, or just the light-emitting part?" "What constitutes a street sign" "Is a Mecedes Sprinter with windows a bus (it's one of wikipedia's example of a minibus)?".

In the end the known unknowns aren't that bad, just assume laziness and choose whatever checks the least boxes. But the unknown unknowns are regular culture shocks. Like pedestrian lights not being considered traffic lights.

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