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Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

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Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#231

Post by aliqot »

t-3 wrote: post #149
Communitivity wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private blockchains. Imagine a crime cartel with a private blockchain. Obviously they are not KYC. You can withdraw funds from the cartel, or pay for cartel services with the coin. Ironically, a version of this was in private fiat currency - the coins in the John Wick movies were used this way.

That's still a traceable blockchain though, just privately kept. As soon as you start keeping a ledger, you make transactions traceable. With a single or low number of ledgers, network analysis becomes easier the more heavily each actor uses the currency as well, compromising anonymity.

Private blockchain is a term that refers to blockchain tech that does not divulge balances and transaction history without being a signing party to that transaction or without a delegated 'view' key created by the keyholder for the purposes of the audit. It's a confusing term which should have a better name, I agree.

For an example, most cryptonote networks function this way unless they have explicitly damaged or disabled the functions responsible, like in the case of Electroneum.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#232

Post by crazygringo »

alexb_ wrote: post #154
O__________O wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that much like tracing blockchain transactions, cash is much easier to trace for governments than most people realize. For example, it is my understanding, most banks and ATMs scan serial numbers when receiving or distributing cash; oddly, banks will not give you itemized list of serial numbers of the bills they distributed, which would be useful in cash seizures. Also my understanding that most c…

You can track where a bill was distributed, what bank it came from, who withdrew that cash, but past that you can't track any of the transactions that happen. The transactions being tracked is the important part here.

If a store makes daily deposits and those serial numbers are scanned, you can narrow down the transaction to a day. Security footage will show the transaction happening. It's a bit of work, but if that happens to you twice there aren't too many people who visited the same two stores those two days. They now know what you look like and can find your other movements across other security cameras. Bingo, you were tracked via your cash.

Unless you're also an expert at disguise and also avoiding security cameras to and from the stores. Every time you buy something.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#233

Post by jqpabc123 »

imdsm wrote: post #155
jqpabc123 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything, "crypto" is based on the idea that people can't be trusted, and is thus a trustless system LOL! When you buy crypto, how do you determine what price is fair? Most people turn to an unregulated "exchange" that can easily manipulate prices in a multitude of different ways. This is called "trust" --- blind, misplaced trust --- without any oversight or transparency. You have reiterated a common crypto fallac…

I'm not sure this is the forum for capital lols, but to answer your question: > how do you determine what price is fair? Well that comes down to you, doesn't it? Would you buy a litre of milk for $10? $5? $3? $2? $1? What about if you were buying some sterling to come and visit us here in the sunny UK, what exchange rate would you say is fair? £0.50? £0.75? £0.80? £0.85? What about if I was selling you a kg of Pallad…

im not sure this is the forum for capital lols,

Sorry. At this point, hearing people still try to defend crypto as being "trustless" is kinda comical --- sorta like people who trusted and defended Bernie Madoff because he was once chairman of NASDAQ.

How many crypto rug pulls would be enough to convince you otherwise?

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#235

Post by cowtools »

beauHD wrote: post #35

Putting on my conspiracy robe, I would posit Bitcoin was created by an intelligence agency. You need cryptography smarts and the ability to glue all the various components together aswell as keep it all hush, something an intel agency can do with ease. How else do you uncover vast criminal networks? It was purposefully made to ensnare cyber-criminals. Now as for Monero, I would imagine it has them shaking in their bo…

I doubt it. Bitcoin was simply the combonation of two well-understood things: hashcash and cryptographic signatures.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#237

Post by lern_too_spel »

DarkWiiPlayer wrote: post #113
zaphar wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't use crypto for anything useful without it. This advice means crypto is useless.

not entirely correct; if you both earn and spend all of your crypto directly as cryptocurrency, then you can fairly easily just remain entirely anonymous. This just doesn't apply to most people, at least most who do legal business.

If you spend it to KYC wallets (a company providing Internet hosting, for example), you won't be hard to deanonymize as well.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#238

Post by silisili »

maxwell wrote: post #189
NegativeK wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12772.htm > Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled "Legal tender," states: "United States coins and currency [including Federal Reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal Reserve Banks and national banks] are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues." This statute means that all U.S. money as identified above is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts…

True, but that taco shop m̶u̶s̶t̶ may have to accept cash if they want to operate in Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, D.C., Idaho, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, or Tennessee. Or Berkeley, Chicago, or San Francisco. And everywhere else in the U.S. if the Payment Choice Act passes. https://www.cashmatters.org/blog/america-legislates-fo…

I'd 'unofficially' add NM to the list. While perhaps not a law, not accepting cash here would be an instant business death sentence. -Everyone- runs on cash.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#239

Post by O__________O »

crazygringo wrote: post #228
danuker wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck during bank holidays.

I don't know what that means...? Edit in response to comments: thanks, but it's never been a problem. I have multiple credit cards and I can call 24/7 to resolve an issue with one and use another as backup. And then there's also my debit card, Venmo, and PayPal to be able to fall back on. And if the internet is down for days across my whole city then there might be even bigger problems to be worrying about... So just…

Their point is that depending on the type of non-cash transactions that if the banks are closed, internet is down, etc — banks and related methods of transferring funds are on hold or not possible until banks reopen.

Recently happened to be in a bank and teller randomly mentioned that they had just updated their systems and if internet goes out they are no longer able to do any transactions, including distribute cash.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#240

Post by krferriter »

sidlls wrote: post #177
nimbius wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole article is a plug for Chainalysis, a company that sells its ability to trace crypto transactions to the US government who ironically gave them KYC, the most fundamental and lazy ability to start a business that traces stuff like this. What I'd like to see Grigg admit to with a straight face is his companies ability to trace monero. his company got the US Government bid for a $625,000 bounty to trace it, and…

$625k seems like a lot but in the world of government contracting it’s often not. It may be motivating this, but I’m kinda skeptical.

Yeah $625K across two years is just like 3 developers in NYC. It's not a lot of money.
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