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Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

theintercept.com

41–50 of 77 posts

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I largely agree, but the explosive charge can be a shotgun blank. Which also means it can be substituted for a normal shotgun shell. And the police can use this pretty much at their discretion. How long will it take for this to be misused?

They already did in 2016. [1] They lied to the shooter, who they had cornered, and told him the robot was delivering a phone. In fact it was a bomb. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/08/police-bo...

I understand concerns about how this could be used for unethical purposes, but the Dallas mass shooter case doesn't seem morally ambiguous at all. Lethal force seemed completely appropriate considering the shooter was deliberately targeting officers and was ex-military. By all appearances, this tactic saved lives, and I wouldn't choose this as my example of "concerning misuse". More generally, I don't understand the desire to litigate the rights of an unambiguous, active mass murderer. Dealing with active mass murderers is messy business, and I don't think it's realistic to capture everyone alive--or rather, the costs of doing so are typically innocent human lives, and that's not a cost I'm willing to pay. If a mass murderer is killed and innocent lives are saved, that seems like an unmitigated victory--I don't reserve any tears for unambiguous (racist) terrorists.

I'll take Dallas over Uvalde every single time.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already did in 2016. [1] They lied to the shooter, who they had cornered, and told him the robot was delivering a phone. In fact it was a bomb. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/08/police-bo...

He killed 5 cops and wounded 7 others at that point, maybe they were being slightly vengeful, but I also understand not wanting to send in more dudes.

Not to mention the guy was trained military with an express desire to murder police--who knows what the police would be walking into.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Sam Biddle, I think it is common knowledge that writers don't choose their titles, editors do, so I wasn't criticizing your article, I was criticizing the title. These devices are not robots. They are remote control devices operated by humans. Oxford: robot, a machine capable of carrying out a complex series of actions automatically, especially one programmable by a computer. Robots act autonomously and automatica…

It's considered a robot by its manufacturer ( https://news.northropgrumman.com/news/releases/northrop-grum... ), the police who own it, and California state law, so I am confident in my choice of terms here.

Today I learned my toaster is a robot

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#44
post #3

Clickbait title. Remote control bomb disposal devices with an explosive charge to detonate bombs are hardly "robots with shotguns"

Hi, author of the article here. I don't care if you read my story or don't, but if you're going to accuse me of "clickbait," I'd encourage you to actually read it. The plan here is to literally load live 12 gauge shells into the robot's PAN disrupter device, which typically only takes blank rounds, in order to shoot and kill people under special emergency circumstances. It's a shotgun. But don't take it from me, take…

Implying that someone hasn't read the article violates the site guidelines.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? I'm seeing at most: ' Lt. Joseph Turner' 'urged the commission to allow such a killer robot in case of “exigencies.”' He does not appear to speak on behalf of the Oakland PD but on behalf of his own private views. The official spokesperson appears to be: 'Lt. Omar Daza-Quiroz, who represented the department in discussions over the authorized robot use policy' His claim that “Yes, we are looking into that and doin…

I encourage you to look up the word "exigency"

> He does not appear to speak on behalf of the Oakland PD but on behalf of his own private views.

The article itself claims that someone else, a 'Lt. Omar Daza-Quiroz' is the official spokesperson. Since you apparently are the author, this attempted deflection seems not credible at all.

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#46
post #18
post #3

Clickbait title. Remote control bomb disposal devices with an explosive charge to detonate bombs are hardly "robots with shotguns"

they are already armed with a functional shotgun and a hand waved at it. you can put any 12ga. cartridge in it, and that means a lot of things.

Right. They could be using it to plant wildflowers: https://texashillcountry.com/shotgun-flower-shell/

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#48
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Sam Biddle, I think it is common knowledge that writers don't choose their titles, editors do, so I wasn't criticizing your article, I was criticizing the title. These devices are not robots. They are remote control devices operated by humans. Oxford: robot, a machine capable of carrying out a complex series of actions automatically, especially one programmable by a computer. Robots act autonomously and automatica…

Northrop-Grumman calls this specific model a robot in their press release. https://news.northropgrumman.com/news/releases/northrop-grum...

Sometimes companies exaggerate their products in order to charge higher prices. No doubt there is some strict, technical definition of "robot" that this satisfies, but it's not what people generally think of as a "robot". There's also a strict definition of "tool" that is satisfied by a rock or a stick, but that's not what I'm looking for when I ask about tools at Home Depot (and apart from the pedants, everyone generally understands this).

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already did in 2016. [1] They lied to the shooter, who they had cornered, and told him the robot was delivering a phone. In fact it was a bomb. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/08/police-bo...

He killed 5 cops and wounded 7 others at that point, maybe they were being slightly vengeful, but I also understand not wanting to send in more dudes.

It was clearly an extra-judicial execution, just like Christopher Dorner. They cornered someone they really wanted dead and ignored every convention and law to kill them. In the case of Dorner their thirst for vengeance led them to shoot and murder multiple unrelated people. [1]

In a democracy with rule of law, the police have to be held to a higher standard. If not, they are just an armed gang with a licence to kill. It also undermines any concept of negotiation or surrender. The next person will go out guns blazing.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_a...

Re: Oakland cops hope to arm robots with lethal shotguns

#50
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Sam Biddle, I think it is common knowledge that writers don't choose their titles, editors do, so I wasn't criticizing your article, I was criticizing the title. These devices are not robots. They are remote control devices operated by humans. Oxford: robot, a machine capable of carrying out a complex series of actions automatically, especially one programmable by a computer. Robots act autonomously and automatica…

I'm sure the distinction between teleoperated machine and autonomous robot will be very important to the family killed by this machine the next time the Oakland police do a no-knock raid on the wrong house. Whatever kind of machine this is at the end of the day it's a force multiplier. That's why it is used. It lets law enforcement leverage more force against people and it allows them to do so with further impunity.…

The criticism was that the title is clickbait, not that there is no problem with "increased force projection". The latter doesn't justify the former.
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