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Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

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Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#171
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's illegal in NYC to not accept cash and I fully support that. There are a lot of unbanked people here that have enough on their plates without further discrimination. And also cash is king and coins and bills are very neat.

Actually not sure of the law here myself but FWIW as a NYC resident I regularly encounter places that don't accept cash.

Do those places sell you food?

https://legistar.council.nyc.gov/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=3...

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#172

That's because when most people use "blockchain" or "DeFi" they're using AML/KYC entities that post their transaction logs to public servers. Law enforcement eats this up because it saves them the trouble of getting warrants for investigations. Bad for customers to be sure. Most have no idea what they're doing and have fallen for a scam hook, line, and sinker. They (loudly, incessantly) proclaim to their friends the…

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Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#173
post #33

> Unfortunately, this aspect of his brilliant design was one of the first things to be undermined by subsequent blockchain operators. Many cryptocurrencies that have been created since are unlimited in supply, including some of the most heavily speculated ones like Solana, Dogecoin and Shiba Inu. > This is worse than what the central banks have done. No, it's not. Even a coin that is emitted one per second forever is…

Even if a single crypto coin is limited in supply, there's an infinite number of (potential) suppliers of coin.

If I print a trillion schrute bucks, have I devalued the US dollar? If I print another trillion schrute bucks, does the US dollar suffer inflation, or does the schrute buck?

Yes people can make an infinite number of currencies, but they are all parallel systems. Making a new coin doesn't inflate the supply of bitcoin, it is just one more thing that bitcoin could potentially be exchanged for. And in practice it seems unlikely that more than a few thousand could be adopted by enough people to have a value appreciably different from zero.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#174
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that much like tracing blockchain transactions, cash is much easier to trace for governments than most people realize. For example, it is my understanding, most banks and ATMs scan serial numbers when receiving or distributing cash; oddly, banks will not give you itemized list of serial numbers of the bills they distributed, which would be useful in cash seizures. Also my understanding that most c…

You can track where a bill was distributed, what bank it came from, who withdrew that cash, but past that you can't track any of the transactions that happen. The transactions being tracked is the important part here.

As mentioned in comment you replied too, both cash withdrawals & deposits are scanned — and most cash is only used once between receipt and being spent before entering banks again. For small volume of cash, might be possible to remain anonymous, but for large volumes, it would be extremely hard without there being a cost to doing so and might even be technically money laundering, which is illegal. Most retail locations will not break bills without transactions and will not take unusually large bills for transactions. When combined with other methods of surveillance, such as asset tracking, location-data, security cameras, etc, it’s virtually impossible to stay anonymous at any significant scale.

Core point is like blockchain, people do not realize how traceable cash is and many falsely assume it’s completely anonymous, which it is not.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#175
post #80

I have refused to shop at numerous stores because they make a point of not accepting cash. Cash is incredibly important for modern society due to actually being untraceable and allowing for private transactions. Plus, a society without cash is one where you are forced to use central banking. Blockchain is just trying to imitate cash digitally, which as it turns out is really hard to do. So it just ends up that people…

My partner gets a little embarrassed when I make a scene about this, but I persist. My bar tab is one of the last things I want going on my permanent record.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#176
post #80

I have refused to shop at numerous stores because they make a point of not accepting cash. Cash is incredibly important for modern society due to actually being untraceable and allowing for private transactions. Plus, a society without cash is one where you are forced to use central banking. Blockchain is just trying to imitate cash digitally, which as it turns out is really hard to do. So it just ends up that people…

Cash is definitely not untraceable. There are literally serial numbers on every bill printed in the United States.

Agree, explained in more detail here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33234678

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#177
post #84

That's because when most people use "blockchain" or "DeFi" they're using AML/KYC entities that post their transaction logs to public servers. Law enforcement eats this up because it saves them the trouble of getting warrants for investigations. Bad for customers to be sure. Most have no idea what they're doing and have fallen for a scam hook, line, and sinker. They (loudly, incessantly) proclaim to their friends the…

The whole article is a plug for Chainalysis, a company that sells its ability to trace crypto transactions to the US government who ironically gave them KYC, the most fundamental and lazy ability to start a business that traces stuff like this. What I'd like to see Grigg admit to with a straight face is his companies ability to trace monero. his company got the US Government bid for a $625,000 bounty to trace it, and…

$625k seems like a lot but in the world of government contracting it’s often not. It may be motivating this, but I’m kinda skeptical.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#178
post #78
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't tell him about Monero bruuuh :D

Don't tell the crypto Bruhs about the several vulnerabilities already found in the Monero anonnymisation system. https://arxiv.org/pdf/1704.04299/ The problem is also one of credibility, Bitcoin was supposed to be private and breaching privacy has proved to be pretty trivial. Encryption is hard, but maintaining anonymity is much harder.

Guessing your point is that a promise of anonymity is not equal proof of it. As you also likely know, at least one response to that paper was posted:

https://www.getmonero.org/2018/03/29/response-to-an-empirica...

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#179

That's because when most people use "blockchain" or "DeFi" they're using AML/KYC entities that post their transaction logs to public servers. Law enforcement eats this up because it saves them the trouble of getting warrants for investigations. Bad for customers to be sure. Most have no idea what they're doing and have fallen for a scam hook, line, and sinker. They (loudly, incessantly) proclaim to their friends the…

The traceability of very much part of design of most blockchains, starting with Bitcoin. The whitepaper makes this clear in section "10) Privacy" and the article quotes half of the relevant text.

The remaining half states: "As an additional firewall, a new key pair should be used for each transaction to keep them from being linked to a common owner. Some linking is still unavoidable with multi-input transactions, which necessarily reveal that their inputs were owned by the same owner. The risk is that if the owner of a key is revealed, linking could reveal other transactions that belonged to the same owner"

Unlike Bitcoin, account based blockchains make this extra measure of privacy harder as the receiving and sending address is one and the same, however there's no limit to how many accounts one can have, so anonymity is still possible as long as acquiring the coins doesn't reveal your identity.

Those who sign up for cryptocurrency service providers (who are required by law to perform AML/KYC checks - and do so with the consent of their customers) trade away the privacy (of some of their) transactions for the benefits (most commonly, yield and ease of use) said services offer. This is not different from use cases of cash money, where getting cash money from an ATM or most money transmitters will reveal your identity, and while one is free to make in person transactions and remain "anonymous", if one wants to have a bank account or invest legally, then some level of KYC will be in place.

The article indeed asks the wrong question. DeFi can't operate legally without KYC/AML and customers know it. Your comment on the other hand seems to me to be making an error in believing DeFi users don't know this.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#180

Nothing will beat taking a bunch of cash and exchanging it for goods. Yes you could theoretically be traced by serial codes, but entirely impractical at any scale. That’s why government and banks will push for banking apps and going entirely digital.

And people should fight for their freedoms, otherwise it ends like China with total digital surveillance and total government control.
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