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American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

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Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#31

Post by MichaelZuo »

shagie wrote: post #7

The app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sequence-decoder/id1439988599 For the public: -Past and future departure information for all airports -Past and future arrival information for all airports -Individual flight info lookup For flight attendants: -Flight specific info inflight -ETB alerts -Open time alerts -Flight alerts -Open time display -Sequence details -Calendar -Reserve call out list -Standby list -Crew chat…

It would be surprising if AA doesn't offer this set of information already to their employees via internal systems.

It's difficult to see why AA would allegedly want to block it since it seems like a net benefit for their employee's productivity.

Maybe AA IT hasn't yet combined all this into one big user-friendly app, and therefore they want to punish the perceived disloyalty of the flight attendants.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#32

Post by toomuchtodo »

arciini wrote: post #21

I'm sad that this is happening to an app that's useful to its users, but the reality is that scraping is legal, always possible, but difficult. This particular case is a bit harder since it's not purely using public data, but may still qualify since it's likely scraping with legally-obtained credentials. I know of businesses (scraping for ride-sharing, scraping for business intelligence for retailers, scraping from L…

> The key is: you must make enough profit to justify dedicating engineering and legal techniques to defend your scraping.

It also works if you have philanthropic, non profit, or unconventional backing to pay for these defensive resources. If this app is providing substantial benefits to the AA crew around scheduling and QoL, their union might consider providing some backstop/support.

https://www.apfa.org/

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#33

Post by pitaj »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #27
josefresco wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same reaction, I'm totally lost. "it displays information required by crew members to manage their rosters and work lives" What does this mean? I read the entire article and still have no clue what a "roster" is, why a flight attendant would need to "manage" such a thing, and what data is being pulled to make this easier/better "‘reserve’ flight attendants " Also have no idea what a "reserve" flight attendant is... E…

I didn't write the article, but I wasn't aware there were English speakers who didn't know the word roster either. It's a calendar of times employees have to work i.e. It tells you when your shifts are. What do you call that? Also a reserve is something you have spare in case the original planned one can't operate. So a reserve flight attendant would be someone who is on call in case someone else is sick, etcetera.

Usually we'd use the word "schedule" for that (American here). "Roster" is used mainly to mean a "list of people".

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#34

Post by Clent »

dboreham wrote: post #5

Rule #1: don't start a business that depends on data owned by some other business. Rule #1-1: especially if your product adversely affects the other business. Rule #1-2: especially if the other business is much larger than yours.

This is the most anti startup logic I've witnessed on here. Many startups have succeeded while violating all of these rules.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#35

Post by golemotron »

I came here to articulate the counter position to this because people are solidly on the side of the app developer. If you run a business and your employees access your information to do their work through an un-contracted intermediary, it's a real security risk. The information can be filtered or maliciously corrupted, and the company can be easily blackmailed.

I don't think the law offers any direct remedy. The best thing for AA to do is force the app developer into court and make them pay legal fees if they don't want to contract with them, compete by making something better for their employees, or contract with someone else to provide the service. It's costly on all sides but table stakes for running a business in a competitive market these days.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#37

Post by carlmr »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #27
josefresco wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same reaction, I'm totally lost. "it displays information required by crew members to manage their rosters and work lives" What does this mean? I read the entire article and still have no clue what a "roster" is, why a flight attendant would need to "manage" such a thing, and what data is being pulled to make this easier/better "‘reserve’ flight attendants " Also have no idea what a "reserve" flight attendant is... E…

I didn't write the article, but I wasn't aware there were English speakers who didn't know the word roster either. It's a calendar of times employees have to work i.e. It tells you when your shifts are. What do you call that? Also a reserve is something you have spare in case the original planned one can't operate. So a reserve flight attendant would be someone who is on call in case someone else is sick, etcetera.

>I wasn't aware there were English speakers who didn't know the word roster either.

I know what it is, but maybe the people that don't use schedule or timetable?

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#38

Post by pjc50 »

ketzo wrote: post #30
shagie wrote: post #7

The app: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/sequence-decoder/id1439988599 For the public: -Past and future departure information for all airports -Past and future arrival information for all airports -Individual flight info lookup For flight attendants: -Flight specific info inflight -ETB alerts -Open time alerts -Flight alerts -Open time display -Sequence details -Calendar -Reserve call out list -Standby list -Crew chat…

Two thoughts: 1. Wow, that looks like an extremely useful app if you're a flight attendant! 2. How is their employer not providing this functionality? I guess maybe they are, but only parts, or it's a shittier version. But still.

The critical bit is probably the "legality checker". Absolutely no way an employer would offer one of those.

Reading between the lines, flight attendant scheduling is probably quite .. adversarial, as shift scheduling at restaurants can be. The employer would like employees to have the minimum information so they meekly accept the shifts they're given.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#39

Post by carlmr »

dboreham wrote: post #5

Rule #1: don't start a business that depends on data owned by some other business. Rule #1-1: especially if your product adversely affects the other business. Rule #1-2: especially if the other business is much larger than yours.

Rule #1-1 doesn't really apply though. American Airlines seems to be shooting itself in the foot by making working for them harder. This is somebody doing something for free that brings them value.

Re: American Airlines is trying to stop a popular app used by flight attendants

#40

Post by schwartzworld »

josefresco wrote: post #12
sidewndr46 wrote: post #3

I don't understand. What does this app do?

Same reaction, I'm totally lost. "it displays information required by crew members to manage their rosters and work lives" What does this mean? I read the entire article and still have no clue what a "roster" is, why a flight attendant would need to "manage" such a thing, and what data is being pulled to make this easier/better "‘reserve’ flight attendants " Also have no idea what a "reserve" flight attendant is... E…

> still have no clue what a "roster"

> ‘reserve’ flight attendants

These words aren't specific to flight attendants. They're just english words with standard definitions. You're reading this on a device with an internal dictionary as well as internet access.

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