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Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

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Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Personally, all I see are a string of obvious scams collapsing. I think you and rational people agree, it's just the rational people see the whole space as a scam, and they're not wrong. It's been, from it's very start, a Dunning-Kruger trap sold on lies. First it was supposed to be a currency, but was created from the ground up to be deflationary, which is a death knell for a currency and leads to perpetual recessi…

>First it was supposed to be a currency >Then it was an asset that can only go up >Then it was an inflation hedge that would keep you up when markets went down All of these are just random narratives that you sometimes see being pushed on reddit or twitter. No credible person would make the last two claims. I get it, shitting on crypto has become hip especially in the last couple of years. But it doesn't change the f…

This sounds like 'whelp the bubble hasn't popped yet, and it'll probably keep going up for a bit'.

Not exactly the reassuring defense of crypto.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#162
post #87
post #34

I found this article to be poorly-written and deliberately inflammatory. I'll gloss over the regular criticism of "stop conflating cryptocurrencies with blockchains". It makes continual leaps from Satoshi Nakamoto's intentions to short-comings of non-BTC cryptocurrencies, and then snowballs this into the tremendously non-sequitur subheading Bitcoin has failed. Cryptocurrencies and DeFi platforms are now more vulnerab…

The modern monetary system used to have all of the same obvious scams. They made participating in any economic activity risky and depressed local as well as global economic activity as a result. None of these scams are new and the regulations and tools that crypto is attempting to get away from were created as a response to these scams in the past. To my mind Crypto has not yet made the case that it is better than th…

[deleted]

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#164
post #52

“No shit”. Wait, you mean something that literally tracks any and all actions in a literal chain of history that is immutable is easy to track?!? You mean that pattern recognition can be applied to even “randomized” in both size, time, and destination of transactions can be done to track like how they can track burner phones? I’m shocked! Shocked I say!

Literally my reaction as well: "no shit, Sherlock"

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#165

Here's an amusing exercise: count up how many top FBI executives over the neoliberal period (roughly beginning in the mid-1970s under Ford/Carter) have gone to work for various Wall Street-linked investment banks, hedge funds, law firms, etc. after 'retirement' (the number is comparable to that of generals and admirals who migrated to the corporate boards of defense contractors post-'retirement'). This reality suppor…

That's a lot of words to levy a simple ad hominem. Regardless of the truth or falsehood of your observation, publicly-verified blockchain-backed currencies are easily traced (especially now that they've become valuable enough for companies with money to invest in solving the problem). The possibility that the messenger has a vested interest in amplifying this message is orthogonal to the truth of it.

I'd also note that the qualifier easier to trace than paper money is a kind of misdirection tactic. Is crypto also easier to trace than electronic $US funds hidden behind a web of shell companies and offshore accounts, and with ownership further obfuscated by various cut-out strategies? For example:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/07/treasury-wants-to-crack-down...

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#167
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole article is a plug for Chainalysis, a company that sells its ability to trace crypto transactions to the US government who ironically gave them KYC, the most fundamental and lazy ability to start a business that traces stuff like this. What I'd like to see Grigg admit to with a straight face is his companies ability to trace monero. his company got the US Government bid for a $625,000 bounty to trace it, and…

I suspect chainalysis is describing some "poisoned output attack" with respect to monero. See: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iABIcsDJKyM The problem is a well-understood but innate limitation to all sender-obfuscating cryptocurrencies.

> limitation to all sender-obfuscating cryptocurrencies

Only those that allow sending coins to recipients without their explicit approval. On pure Mimblewimble blockchains, the recipient must sign for receipt and is much less likely to accept poisoned funds.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#168
post #80

I have refused to shop at numerous stores because they make a point of not accepting cash. Cash is incredibly important for modern society due to actually being untraceable and allowing for private transactions. Plus, a society without cash is one where you are forced to use central banking. Blockchain is just trying to imitate cash digitally, which as it turns out is really hard to do. So it just ends up that people…

I don't understand how it's legal for vendors to actually refuse cash. I get it that there's multiple reasons they wouldn't want to and they can say it's their policy, etc but it's on the paper money itself "LEGAL tender for ALL debts public and PRIVATE". It's like when you hear the stories about people paying debts with buckets of coins. Obviously a huge PitA but technically allowed.

My understanding is that it can't be refused to settle a debt, for instance your restaurant/bar/hotel tab or for paying your car note, mortgage, taxes etc.

However, a store owner can choose to only accept bottle caps or conch shells in exchange for their goods if that's what they want to do. If you go up to the register and you tell them you want the widget, you have to pay whatever they're asking in exchange. Doesn't have to be cash, credit or even money of any sort.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#169
post #52

“No shit”. Wait, you mean something that literally tracks any and all actions in a literal chain of history that is immutable is easy to track?!? You mean that pattern recognition can be applied to even “randomized” in both size, time, and destination of transactions can be done to track like how they can track burner phones? I’m shocked! Shocked I say!

I think the real answer is “then why are you so bad at tracking money?”.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#170
I thought this was the whole point of crypto, a completely public and traceable system to stop people doing shady shit, particularly aimed at shady people in the finance world. It’s kind of ironic that it’s ended up that the biggest crypto users are also the planet’s shadiest people. I’d be interested to know how much money would be in crypto markets if drugs were legalised globally when the original Bitcoin paper dropped. My guess would be less than a quarter of what we’ve got now and that crypto would be looked at with even more disinterest than Zuckerberg’s Metaverse.

People can shout and scream about it all they want but it’s just not going to be the tech utopia people dream of. As soon as it gains any kind of significant traction, central banks will release their own coins, allow people a grace period to transfer existing Bitcoin/Ethereum into central bank coin after which they’ll outlaw transactions in coins that aren’t backed by a central bank. The elites will not simply roll over and give up control of the money supply. They’ll stop it in its tracks long before it gets enough traction to take over as a legitimate alternative.

Realistically, I’d say somewhere in the ball park of 1/3 to 2/3 of global gdp would have to be in crypto for the people to have enough power to just ignore the central banks and governments. Even then, the big players would have to be able to convince the right lawyers and military personnel to bet on crypto because it would most likely be a long and bloody takeover.

Blockchain might have other legitimate uses, but I just do not see it taking over standard currencies unless there is some kind of central authority that maintains control over it. I hope I’m proved wrong, and that we can live in a less corrupt world as a result. But I can’t see a path to getting there. Every other successful piece of tech ends up with large controlling players e.g Facebook for social, Google for search. The general public does not have the time or patience to learn the ins and outs of decentralised tech. They do not care about tech nor should they. Firefighters, nurses and factory workers do not want to be finishing 12 hour shifts to read up for hours on how to set up a mastodon account. They have bigger things to worry about like doing their jobs, keeping a roof over their heads and feeding their families. They only care about what tech can do for them. They want convenience. Which means opinionated decisions on how something should be. Which inevitably leads to the quelling of decentralisation and individuality in favour of a few big power players. I don’t see why crypto would be any different.

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