Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money • Hacker News Board

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#61

Post by jonhohle » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 1:59 PM UTC

rtkwe wrote: post #37

Lukas_Skywalker wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always ask myself how the blockchain would work with physical products. Isn‘t there always a human who needs to either - enter the data somewhere - put a tag on the product - scan a tag and where they could, knowingly or not, produce false data?

Yeah this is the fundamental problem, the only benefit you get with a blockchain is you know the data hasn't been altered from the original but there's no guarantee the data originally entered was correct. All the pitches about tracking shipments have the same issue, shipping companies already do most of that without blockchain and the main issue of people lying to the computers isn't solved by adding a chain to the…

Why is blockchain needed for that and not any other immutable ledger?

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#62

Post by bulldog13 » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 1:59 PM UTC

louwrentius wrote: post #50

SevenNation wrote: post #41

That's because when most people use "blockchain" or "DeFi" they're using AML/KYC entities that post their transaction logs to public servers. Law enforcement eats this up because it saves them the trouble of getting warrants for investigations. Bad for customers to be sure. Most have no idea what they're doing and have fallen for a scam hook, line, and sinker. They (loudly, incessantly) proclaim to their friends the…

What is the point you are trying to convey?

No post body was provided.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#63

Post by photochemsyn » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 2:00 PM UTC

Here's an amusing exercise: count up how many top FBI executives over the neoliberal period (roughly beginning in the mid-1970s under Ford/Carter) have gone to work for various Wall Street-linked investment banks, hedge funds, law firms, etc. after 'retirement' (the number is comparable to that of generals and admirals who migrated to the corporate boards of defense contractors post-'retirement'). This reality supports the notion that the FBI's central role is to serve as the enforcement arm of the organized white-collar crime cartel known as 'Wall Street'.

A competing monetary system relative to the Federal Reserve isn't something these interests are all that thrilled about. Hence, regardless of the soundness or unsoundness of various cryptocurrency approaches, ex-FBI officials should hardly be viewed as independent credible third-party voices on the issue.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#64

Post by lettergram » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 2:01 PM UTC

Nothing will beat taking a bunch of cash and exchanging it for goods. Yes you could theoretically be traced by serial codes, but entirely impractical at any scale.

That’s why government and banks will push for banking apps and going entirely digital.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#65

Post by junofan » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 2:01 PM UTC

insanitybit wrote: post #36

AlexandrB wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The most sensible thing to do with blockchain is to track produce from when it's picked to when it's sold for QC. I don't understand why even this is sensible. Why not just use a database? The only miners/validators on a produce blockchain are likely to be agri-companies anyway.

I also find it to be a confusing use case. The point of blockchain is that it's useful if you assume that some parties are malicious . Who are we protecting against in the produce supply chain?

It’s cheaper than lawyers for some things.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#66

Post by Barrin92 » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 2:04 PM UTC

in Seeing Like a State James Scott talks about the concept of legibility as the most important feature of any authority. An uneditable, global ledger is pretty much the ultimate bureaucratic tool. Any historic emperor would have killed for a blockchain. It is the ultimate record keeper.

Much confusion about crypto as some privacy preserving or decentralizing tool ignores the fact that increasing legibility will ultimately always enable centralization because it makes possible the creation of more sophisticated, larger structures.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#67

Post by BaseballPhysics » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 2:04 PM UTC

louwrentius wrote: post #50

SevenNation wrote: post #41

That's because when most people use "blockchain" or "DeFi" they're using AML/KYC entities that post their transaction logs to public servers. Law enforcement eats this up because it saves them the trouble of getting warrants for investigations. Bad for customers to be sure. Most have no idea what they're doing and have fallen for a scam hook, line, and sinker. They (loudly, incessantly) proclaim to their friends the…

What is the point you are trying to convey?

Something about No True Scotsman if I'm understanding correctly.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#68

Post by jonhohle » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 2:05 PM UTC

insanitybit wrote: post #28

prvit wrote: post #4

Entirely traceable money is easier to trace than borderline untraceable money? Great.

> The traditional banking model achieves a level of privacy by limiting access to information to the parties involved and the trusted third party. The necessity to announce all transactions publicly precludes this method, but privacy can still be maintained by breaking the flow of information in another place: by keeping public keys anonymous. The public can see that someone is sending an amount to someone else, but…

I’ve not read the paper, but was the original intention that Bitcoin would be almost immediately transferred to an external store of value? How are single use addresses funded without the transaction being recorded?

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#69

Post by junofan » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 2:06 PM UTC

rtkwe wrote: post #37

Lukas_Skywalker wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always ask myself how the blockchain would work with physical products. Isn‘t there always a human who needs to either - enter the data somewhere - put a tag on the product - scan a tag and where they could, knowingly or not, produce false data?

Yeah this is the fundamental problem, the only benefit you get with a blockchain is you know the data hasn't been altered from the original but there's no guarantee the data originally entered was correct. All the pitches about tracking shipments have the same issue, shipping companies already do most of that without blockchain and the main issue of people lying to the computers isn't solved by adding a chain to the…

Think the idea is to use economic incentives rather than legal incentives, e.g. lose a bunch of money if caught cheating. This allows new participants to compete better across jurisdictions.

Re: Chainalysis CTO said blockchain is easier to trace than paper money

#70

Post by insanitybit » Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 2:06 PM UTC

lupire wrote: post #43

insanitybit wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The traditional banking model achieves a level of privacy by limiting access to information to the parties involved and the trusted third party. The necessity to announce all transactions publicly precludes this method, but privacy can still be maintained by breaking the flow of information in another place: by keeping public keys anonymous. The public can see that someone is sending an amount to someone else, but…

Satoshi+in their writings) didn't understand the side channel attack of the Blockchain-meatspace bridge. Bitcoin only meets its design guarantees in a purely virtual world or with anonymous terminals. Bitcoin is already expensive enough to transact in, are you also going to move to a different location every time your transact?

I don't think it even really gets to the point of side channels. People sign up with their github account and a photo ID so that a 3rd party can store their private key for them.