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Earlier quoted context omitted.
You need perfect pitch to be able to tell two keys apart with no reference tone. I'm pretty sure the key connotations are placebo by now
Perfect pitch can most definitely be learned. The parent comment echos a common belief that mentally prevents people from distinguishing key signatures (even under equal temperament), which not insignificantly has a knock-on effect in music education.
Rick says no...
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But my parent was talking about 12 tone equal temperament?
I replied using a comparison of 12-TET, to scales with unequal steps. The post I replied to, used only the perspective of modern keyboards when talking about transposing music.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "For example, the black keys on a piano sound distinctly different than the white keys" Can you elaborate on that? One thing that I noticed is that sometimes it can be hard to make the black keys sound the same as the white keys just because of their different geometry. They are shorter and therefore the lever length is shorter. You have to actively work to get timing and intensity right but you learn that early. A…
Okay, full disclosure: I’m not entirely sure what the physical reason is, and I don’t have a source beyond just my own experience. However, I can definitely tell a difference, and it’s not subtle at all. If you play a note on the piano for me while my eyes are closed I can reliably tell whether it’s a black key or a white key. If I’m playing on a (high-quality sampled) synth piano that’s accidentally set to transpose…
I also do not know the reason, but I suspect it might have to do with body resonances/geometry.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Key _changes_ are audible, but you can't tell a key on its own in equal temperament (except if you have perfect pitch)
There are some differences, though. For example, the resonance of the open G strings on the violins is sometimes audible, and this may make different keys sound different.
Musical harmony in Western music is based on physical properties of the way materials vibrate. When you vibrate something resonant through plucking, striking, forcing air through, etc, it vibrates at a fundamental frequency, and integer multiples of that fundamental frequency. So for instance 400 Hz, 800 Hz, 1200 Hz, etc.
The power of two multiples sound like the same note in a higher octave. Human hearing is logarithmic, and the same note one octave higher is double the frequency.
The non power of 2 multiples do NOT sound like the same note. These notes are what "sounds good" with the base frequency, and generally the lower frequency multiple it comes from the better it sounds. So for instance, starting with 400 Hz, 400 x 3 = 1200. Divide that back down below 800 to 600 to put it in the same "octave", and you have the interval called a 5th. 400 Hz x 5 = 2000, divide it back down to 500 Hz. That's a major 3rd? I think? It might be a 4th, I don't remember.
Notice that these frequencies are defined by exact ratios to each other, not by consistent logarithmic increases which can be repeated in a pattern (a scale). So, how can you split up an octave in the way that most closely appoximates these exact ratios? Turns out dividing an octave into 12 steps is much better than any number before or after until you get to 24. Thus the 12 note system of western music.
All the different tuning systems mentioned by others are trying to tune these 12 notes for different purposes. Older pre-modern systems usually tuned to C most exactly, and left small errors in every other key. These small errors gave different character to different keys in music of the time. Newer tuning systems (equal temperament), have the key errors balanced out evenly across every key, so every key now sounds the same in character.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Key _changes_ are audible, but you can't tell a key on its own in equal temperament (except if you have perfect pitch)
While most people can't give a name to the key they are hearing, I'm not sure that proves they can hear no difference. A painter may look at a landscape and identify all the individual colors they are seeing where a common person may mostly ignore or tune out much of what they see, but it doesn't mean they aren't experiencing it in some lesser way even if they can't fully articulate it like a painter can
Subjectively, I - and I presume many others - get a particular feel even from individual notes, and when I compose something I often start by picking a root note that suits what I want, and then choose the key based on that. Otherwise why have keys in the first place? I’ve had conversations with other musicians about what particular key we’re into lately, for instance, for a long time I’ve really enjoyed Bb minor.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perfect pitch can most definitely be learned. The parent comment echos a common belief that mentally prevents people from distinguishing key signatures (even under equal temperament), which not insignificantly has a knock-on effect in music education.
>Perfect pitch can most definitely be learned. Rick says no... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=816VLQNdPMM
I emphasise that the common belief echoed here in this discussion perpetuates to children who can learn perfect pitch but often do not for lack of encouragement.
It is similar to illiteracy that is often perpetuated by parents to their offspring, which incidentally is often the case with music notation. There are different languages of music notation but most children never learn to read or write.
Keep in mind that under equal temperament, used ubiquitously today, all keys sound the same. The descriptions in the article probably only apply to a certain other tuning system. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_(music)#Key_coloration
Here is some context behind musical tuning systems, and how harmony works: Musical harmony in Western music is based on physical properties of the way materials vibrate. When you vibrate something resonant through plucking, striking, forcing air through, etc, it vibrates at a fundamental frequency, and integer multiples of that fundamental frequency. So for instance 400 Hz, 800 Hz, 1200 Hz, etc. The power of two mult…
> Divide that back down below 800 to 600
Do you mean "keep dividing 1200 by 2 until it is less than 400 times 2"? So, if I have a starting frequency N and some multiple frequency KN then the process is "find i such that (KN >> i) N"?
Here is some context behind musical tuning systems, and how harmony works: Musical harmony in Western music is based on physical properties of the way materials vibrate. When you vibrate something resonant through plucking, striking, forcing air through, etc, it vibrates at a fundamental frequency, and integer multiples of that fundamental frequency. So for instance 400 Hz, 800 Hz, 1200 Hz, etc. The power of two mult…
Actually, the power of two multiples sound like the same note.