131–140 of 140 posts
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> Free speech, land/property rights, etc. are important, but they are just excuses, as they don't seem to be the things actually slowing down these projects. Why do you say that? What is slowing them down?
Utterly broken politics at all levels, plus a ton of corruption.
What I find odd about this is that... Trains are the go-to means of intercity transport across much of Europe. The term "High speed rail" isn't strictly defined, but seems to kick in somewhere between 110 and 155 mph. Pretty much every intercity train in the UK is running at 125mph for at least some of their journey. Europe is full of functioning high speed rail networks - TGV, ICE, Eurostar, networks in Spain and It…
This topic comes up periodically on HN and it typically ends in the same points: 1. Your entire country (UK) is smaller than 11 of our 50 states. The several hundred miles between London and Edinburgh pass through many smaller cities and towns, between which people travel. Between SF and LA is a pea soup restaurant and a handful of midsized, mainly agricultural settlements that can't be gotten around without a car (o…
This is true, but it's not a reason to discount train travel. San Francisco is the size of Edinburgh and Glasgow combined - and between them there's 40 odd services a day. I get that route regularly, and it can be standing room only the whole way.
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> If we had that in certain locations in the U.S., it would be absolutely amazing. You just show up a half hour before your train (gotta get there earlier in certain huge stations) and basically walk on. Security theatre in the US means you don’t just walk on the train. You sit in a waiting room with no ambition for capacity and get escorted to the platform by friendly security guards. Quite an experience if you’re n…
Where did you experience that? At least last month Amtrak from NYC didn't require anything like that, nor does the new station have any sort of waiting area to even facilitate that. I've seen something similar in Madrid, where you have to have your bags xrayed and enter into a sterile area but never in the US.
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Utterly broken politics at all levels, plus a ton of corruption.
Could you dive in a bit? What is "broken"? How does the corruption manifest?
I don't think I really need to go into detail about how broken US politics are. January 6, 2021 is proof of this.
Riding the high-speed rail in China made me so envious of that setup. If we had that in certain locations in the U.S., it would be absolutely amazing. You just show up a half hour before your train (gotta get there earlier in certain huge stations) and basically walk on. The train ride is buttery smooth with a lot of space, and you can order food from the next station to be delivered to you if you don't want any of t…
Lived in China and I'm not envious of their HSR at all. Boarding procedures are more complicated and take longer than any European Schengen airport and prices are higher than European budget airlines, let alone for Chinese purchasing power they are insanely expensive. Together with introduction of HSR they closed many slower lines meaning travel is now less available for majority of Chinese. Same goes for their amazi…
This is not even close to being true. Security in Chinese HSR stations is minimal. You walk through a metal detector, put your bag through a scanner, and that's it. Boarding itself takes a few minutes.
> prices are higher than European budget airlines
A 7.5-hour trip across the entire length of the country, from Guangzhou to Beijing (over 2100 km, roughly the distance from NYC to Miami, or Rome to Copenhagen), costs the equivalent of $130. It's difficult to complain about that price.
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Lived in China and I'm not envious of their HSR at all. Boarding procedures are more complicated and take longer than any European Schengen airport and prices are higher than European budget airlines, let alone for Chinese purchasing power they are insanely expensive. Together with introduction of HSR they closed many slower lines meaning travel is now less available for majority of Chinese. Same goes for their amazi…
> Boarding procedures are more complicated and take longer than any European Schengen airport This is not even close to being true. Security in Chinese HSR stations is minimal. You walk through a metal detector, put your bag through a scanner, and that's it. Boarding itself takes a few minutes. > prices are higher than European budget airlines A 7.5-hour trip across the entire length of the country, from Guangzhou to…
And let's rather not compare slow European trains where can I board the train with zero checks anywhere, heck sometimes even without checked ticket.
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> Boarding procedures are more complicated and take longer than any European Schengen airport This is not even close to being true. Security in Chinese HSR stations is minimal. You walk through a metal detector, put your bag through a scanner, and that's it. Boarding itself takes a few minutes. > prices are higher than European budget airlines A 7.5-hour trip across the entire length of the country, from Guangzhou to…
Yeah sure, or more like, wait in huge queue in front of train station to get to security check, then wait in queue to waiting room, then wait in queue on exit from waiting room to platform, then get checked at train door and finally get checked ticket while seated. Meanwhile at Schengen airport - I get checked my ticket by automated machine, then just go to security check at my boarding gate and then get checked boar…
It has never taken me more than a few minutes to go through security in a train station in China. You're exaggerating here.
Yes, you have to get your ticket checked before going onto the platform, but that's also just a few minutes in line. There are usually several automatic ticket gates, plus one or two people manually checking.
In European airports, it can take a good hour to go through security and get to your gate, if you arrive at a busy time.
> As I said 130USD is crazy expensive when I can fly in Europe similar routers for 20-50 USD and it will take me 2 hours instead 7.5 hours.
I gave Beijing-Guangzhou as an extreme example, to show how cheap even extremely long routes are. I think most people would fly that distance. However, on a route like Beijing-Shanghai (just over 4 hours), most people would choose to take the train.
About the price, $130 to travel across a country the size of China is not crazy, regardless of how cheaply you can fly in Europe. Your trip is also not going to be merely 2 hours - that's the amount of time it takes from leaving home until takeoff, if you're cutting it close.
> There is no difference between getting to Chinese HSR station or European airport
Security in a European airport is on a completely different level from Chinese HSR stations. Yes, the German model of open platforms without ticket checks is nicer than the Chinese model of ticket checks in front of the platform, but let's not exaggerate here. On the other hand, the Chinese model of trains actually leaving and arriving on time is nice.
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Milan to Rome by rail is 30 minutes from home to a seat on the train (by underground, one train every 3 minutes,) 3 hours to the center of Rome. By plane is 30 minutes to the closest airport or 90 minutes to the two further away (by train or bus, about one every 20/30 minutes.) Boarding time, probably at least one hour (factor in the connection time with the train or bus). Taxi to take off, one hour flight, taxi to t…
Milan to Paris? Ride. 5 comfortable direct trains per day with tickets starting at 29€! https://www.seat61.com/international-trains/trains-from-Mila...
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Yeah sure, or more like, wait in huge queue in front of train station to get to security check, then wait in queue to waiting room, then wait in queue on exit from waiting room to platform, then get checked at train door and finally get checked ticket while seated. Meanwhile at Schengen airport - I get checked my ticket by automated machine, then just go to security check at my boarding gate and then get checked boar…
> Yeah sure, or more like, wait in huge queue in front of train station to get to security check, then wait in queue to waiting room, then wait in queue on exit from waiting room to platform, then get checked at train door It has never taken me more than a few minutes to go through security in a train station in China. You're exaggerating here. Yes, you have to get your ticket checked before going onto the platform,…
I lived in China for years and I can guarantee you it took me NEVER just few minutes to pass through all checks. But if you visited tier 88 shithole I can see how it's not comparable with Beijing experience.
> In European airports, it can take a good hour to go through security and get to your gate, if you arrive at a busy time.
Hahahah, I just traveled in peak summer season clusterfuck this year and it took me for sure less than 10 minutes to pass through automated ticket gate and immigration check for non schengen flight to get to my security gate at boarding, all while at extremely crowded airport. I can't only imagine what experience it would be off season on Schengen flight.
> However, on a route like Beijing-Shanghai (just over 4 hours), most people would choose to take the train.
Yeah no, I also travelled this route for work few times, each time rather took flight for comparable price than slow train plus the HSR train station is further from city than old airport (which has maglev). So much faster and more comfortable experience for pretty much same price.
> Yes, the German model of open platforms without ticket checks is nicer than the Chinese model of ticket checks in front of the platform, but let's not exaggerate here.
Just out of curiosity how many years have you lived in China? Because I am not exagerating here. No delays. ROFL It must been my imagination to be stuck in middle of nowhere in train for hours, but I guess whether you travel 20 or 25 hours does not make much of an difference in the end, right... Unless you are going towards the most famous tier 1 cities delay was standard with slow trains, for sure worse than European trains at same time. It was well known fact in China trains towards Beijing had always priority because can't arrive in Beijing with delay to lose face, meanwhile facing opposite direction like Xian or Chengdu NGAF.
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> Yeah sure, or more like, wait in huge queue in front of train station to get to security check, then wait in queue to waiting room, then wait in queue on exit from waiting room to platform, then get checked at train door It has never taken me more than a few minutes to go through security in a train station in China. You're exaggerating here. Yes, you have to get your ticket checked before going onto the platform,…
>It has never taken me more than a few minutes to go through security in a train station in China. You're exaggerating here. I lived in China for years and I can guarantee you it took me NEVER just few minutes to pass through all checks. But if you visited tier 88 shithole I can see how it's not comparable with Beijing experience. > In European airports, it can take a good hour to go through security and get to your…
> Hahahah, I just traveled in peak summer season clusterfuck this year and it took me for sure less than 10 minutes to pass through automated ticket gate and immigration check for non schengen flight to get to my security gate at boarding, all while at extremely crowded airport.
It often takes 10 minutes just to walk from security to the gate. Security can easily add on an additional hour on a bad day. 10 minutes from the curb to your gate is unheard of, unless you're running the whole way and cutting to the front of lines.
> the HSR train station is further from city than old airport (which has maglev)
It's 40 minutes from Hongqiao railway station to Nanjing Road (East), in downtown Shanghai. It takes the same amount of time from Pudong Airport to Nanjing Road (East), even if you take the maglev (because the maglev only takes you half of the way).
Suffice it to say that I've traveled enough in China and in Europe to have an idea of the typical train delays. The situation in Germany is markedly worse. Official on-time performance for long-distance trains in Germany is about 60%,[2] and I think that there's a bit of creative accounting going on to even reach that number.
0. https://youtu.be/RIhseWP2LQQ?t=594
1. https://youtu.be/mo5CSafdwNA?t=172
2. Click on "DB Fernferkehr" here: https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/konzern/konzernprofil/zahlen...