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GitHub Copilot, with “public code” blocked, emits my copyrighted code

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Re: GitHub Copilot, with “public code” blocked, emits my copyrighted code

#121

Post by ghaff »

belorn wrote: post #67
drstewart wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great! I assume you believe all search engines should be illegal then?

Accessing a computer system without permission is illegal. Search engines operate under the assumption that they have permission to access any public available server unless explicitly forbidden. If a company or person assume they got copyright permission to any work public accessible then they will quickly find out that such assumption is wrong, and that they require explicit permission.

>Search engines operate under the assumption that they have permission to access any public available server unless explicitly forbidden.

And why should opt-out be a reasonable norm? To be clear, the internet (among many other things) breaks down if every exchange of information is opt-in. Sharing of photographs taken in public places is another example. But the internet basically functions because people share information on an opt-out basis (that may or may not even be respected).

Re: GitHub Copilot, with “public code” blocked, emits my copyrighted code

#122

Post by webstrand »

naikrovek wrote: post #110
ianbutler wrote: post #85

I just tested it myself on a random c file I created in the middle of a rust project I'm working on, it reproduced his full code verbatim from just the function header so clearly it does regurgitate proprietary code unlike some people have said, I do not have his source so co-pilot isn't just using existing context. I've been finding co-pilot really useful but I'll be pausing it for now, and I'm glad I have only been…

what proprietary code? the guy on Twitter is seeing his own GPL code bring reproduced. nothing proprietary there. do you have the "don't reproduce code verbatim" preference set?

He owns the copyright to the code, and the code is not in the public domain, therefore it is proprietary code.

Re: GitHub Copilot, with “public code” blocked, emits my copyrighted code

#123

Post by ianbutler »

naikrovek wrote: post #110
ianbutler wrote: post #85

I just tested it myself on a random c file I created in the middle of a rust project I'm working on, it reproduced his full code verbatim from just the function header so clearly it does regurgitate proprietary code unlike some people have said, I do not have his source so co-pilot isn't just using existing context. I've been finding co-pilot really useful but I'll be pausing it for now, and I'm glad I have only been…

what proprietary code? the guy on Twitter is seeing his own GPL code bring reproduced. nothing proprietary there. do you have the "don't reproduce code verbatim" preference set?

Sorry it would likely be more correct to say "improperly licensed" code and not proprietary. Still for someone like me, the possibility of having LGPL, or any GPL licensed code generated in their project is a solid no thanks. I know others may think differently but those are toxic licenses to me.

Not to mention this code wasn't public so it's kind of moot, having someone's private code be generated into my project is very bad.

As to the option, I do not, I wasn't even aware of the option, but it's pretty silly to me that's not on by default, or even really an option. That should probably be enabled with no way to toggle it without editing the extension.

Re: GitHub Copilot, with “public code” blocked, emits my copyrighted code

#124

Post by tablespoon »

faeriechangling wrote: post #39
naillo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean we definitely can stop it. Laws are a pretty strong deterrent.

You can slow this, you can't stop it whatsoever. It's about as ultimately futile as an effort as trying to stop piracy. People are ALREADY running salesforce codegen and stable diffusion at home, you can't put the genie back in the bottle, what we'll have 20 years from now is going to make critics of these tools have nightmares. If you try to outlaw it, the day before the laws come into effect, I'm going to download…

> You can slow this, you can't stop it whatsoever. It's about as ultimately futile as an effort as trying to stop piracy. ... But STOPPING the use of these tools? Go ahead and try, won't happen.

So? No one needs to stop it totally. The world isn't black and white, pushing it to the fringes is almost certainly a sufficient success.

Outlawing murder hasn't stopped murder, but no one's given up on enforcing those laws because of the futility of perfect success.

> If you try to outlaw it, the day before the laws come into effect, I'm going to download the very best models out there and run it on my home computer. I'll start organising with other scofflaws and building our own AI projects in the fashion of leelachesszero with donated compute time.

That sounds like a cyberpunk fantasy.

Re: GitHub Copilot, with “public code” blocked, emits my copyrighted code

#125

Post by lo_zamoyski »

tpxl wrote: post #16
acoustics wrote: post #6

I’ve noticed that people tend to disapprove of AI trained on their profession’s data, but are usually indifferent or positive about other applications of AI. For example, I know artists who are vehemently against DALL-E, Stable Diffusion, etc. and regard it as stealing, but they view Copilot and GPT-3 as merely useful tools. I also know software devs who are extremely excited about AI art and GPT-3 but are outraged b…

When Joe Rando plays a song from 1640 on a violin he gets a copyright claim on Youtube. When Jane Rando uses devtools to check a website source code she gets sued. When Microsoft steals all code on their platform and sells it, they get lauded. When "Open" AI steals thousands of copyrighted images and sells them, they get lauded. I am skeptical of imaginary property myself, but fuck this one set of rules for the poor,…

The poor are the masses, or at least part of the masses.

Re: GitHub Copilot, with “public code” blocked, emits my copyrighted code

#126

Post by williamcotton »

williamcotton wrote: post #103
williamcotton wrote: post #13

Is the code in question even covered by copyright in the first place? It seems utilitarian in nature. Oh, the comments! Those are covered by copyright for sure.

You know, I make it a habit of not trying to get upset by downvotes but this is really absurd. What am I saying that is incorrect? Am I being rude? What exactly do you disagree with?

Like, should I just stop interacting with people on this website? Is that the intent? To make me just go away?

Re: GitHub Copilot, with “public code” blocked, emits my copyrighted code

#127

Post by c7b »

ghoward wrote: post #68
c7b wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these AI tools give more power to people who control data, i.e., big companies or wealthy people, while at the same time, they take power away from individuals. Not sure I agree, but I can at least see the point for Copilot and DALL-E - but Stable Diffusion? It's open source, it runs on (some) home-use laptops. How is that taking away power from indies? Just look at the sheer number of apps building on or extending…

SD is better than the other two, but it will still centralize control. I imagine that Disney would take issue with SD if material that Disney owned the copyright to was used in SD. They would sue. SD would have to be taken off the market. Thus, Disney has the power to ensure that their copyrighted material remains protected from outside interests, and they can still create unique things that bring in audiences. Any s…

> I imagine that Disney would take issue with SD if material that Disney owned the copyright to was used in SD. They would sue. SD would have to be taken off the market.

Are you sure?

I'm not familiar with the exact data set they used for SD and whether or not Disney art was included, but my understanding is that their claim to legality comes from arguing that the use of images as training data is 'fair use'.

Anyone can use Disney art for their projects as long as it's fair use, so even if they happened to not include Disney art in SD, it doesn't fully validate your point, because they could have done so if they wanted. As long as training constitutes fair use, which I think it should - it's pretty much the AI equivalent of 'looking at others' works', which is part of a human artist's training as well.

Re: GitHub Copilot, with “public code” blocked, emits my copyrighted code

#128

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

acoustics wrote: post #6

I’ve noticed that people tend to disapprove of AI trained on their profession’s data, but are usually indifferent or positive about other applications of AI. For example, I know artists who are vehemently against DALL-E, Stable Diffusion, etc. and regard it as stealing, but they view Copilot and GPT-3 as merely useful tools. I also know software devs who are extremely excited about AI art and GPT-3 but are outraged b…

I can think of two explanations for that off the top of my head.

The first is that people only recognize the problems with the things that they're familiar with, which you would kind of expect.

The other option is that there's a difference in the thing that people object to. My impression is that artists seem to be reacting to the idea that they could be automated out of a job, where programmers are mostly objecting to blatant copyright violation. (Not universally in either case, but often.) If that is the case, then those are genuinely different arguments made by different people.

Re: GitHub Copilot, with “public code” blocked, emits my copyrighted code

#129

Post by vghfgk1000 »

ghoward wrote: post #27
acoustics wrote: post #6

I’ve noticed that people tend to disapprove of AI trained on their profession’s data, but are usually indifferent or positive about other applications of AI. For example, I know artists who are vehemently against DALL-E, Stable Diffusion, etc. and regard it as stealing, but they view Copilot and GPT-3 as merely useful tools. I also know software devs who are extremely excited about AI art and GPT-3 but are outraged b…

I am a programmer who has written extensively on my blog and HN against Copilot. I am also not a hypocrite; I do not like DALL-E or Stable Diffusion either. As a sibling comment implies, these AI tools give more power to people who control data, i.e., big companies or wealthy people, while at the same time, they take power away from individuals. Copilot is bad for society. DALL-E and Stable Diffusion are bad for soci…

The best proposal I’ve heard to deal with the societal/economic problems this sort of A.I. poses were made by Jaron Lanier: https://youtu.be/rGqiswuJuQI?t=1190 …I can see why his proposals of providing (micro-)compensation to people whose tremendous efforts end up being mined by these algorithms would not be popular with researchers/companies who stand to benefit vastly (…presumably including the investors who own this site?). The lobbying power/political power/ awareness/financial resources of your average (atomised) artist/programmer/musician etc. is pretty much nil in comparison… Forgive the clumsy analogy, but I have a feeling the whole thing might end up something like a haulage company that doesn’t want to pay any taxes to help fix the roads though?

Re: GitHub Copilot, with “public code” blocked, emits my copyrighted code

#130

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

webstrand wrote: post #122
naikrovek wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what proprietary code? the guy on Twitter is seeing his own GPL code bring reproduced. nothing proprietary there. do you have the "don't reproduce code verbatim" preference set?

He owns the copyright to the code, and the code is not in the public domain, therefore it is proprietary code.

That's not how anybody uses the word proprietary when dealing with software licensing. It's a term of art that stands in contrast to open source licenses.
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