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A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

cleveland.com

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Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#281

Post by trhr »

yieldcrv wrote: post #200
trhr wrote: post #195

Hahahahahaha. Imagine using something from the App Store to identify mushrooms instead of a reference book that is specifically written to keep you alive.

I would say there is a case for warning labels in identification apps. especially when mushrooms are identified. The apps themselves are really good. If you haven't used some popular ones I would say you're being too dismissive. But those apps were never for finding something to eat, and especially not for finding mushrooms to eat. I can see how this isn't as Darwinian as I would otherwise lean toward.

I will trust my own intelligence over artificial intelligence any day.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#282

Post by 411111111111111 »

smeej wrote: post #280
s1artibartfast wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to track and monitor its use if it is not approved. The inquiry and scrutiny exists. Im not sure why you assume it doesnt. Do all of the patients die from the drug? Are doctors administer it as a new fad for the common cold, ect?

I assume it doesn't because U.S.-government-level "inquiry and scrutiny" takes at least an order of magnitude longer than 72 hours. If they're getting this done in time for it to be useful, it's just being rubber-stamped. Do you sincerely think the EU would keep a drug available for common use if everyone who took it died? If not, drop the red herring and try to have a halfway serious discussion.

I mean the argument was that that "they have to keep filling out these forms, causing lots of overtime", that was the argument I pointed out to be unreasonably dumb considering it's less then 5 times per year.

So... The one that's doing that is pretty much you.

None of us can argue about wherever the drug should be approved by now, as we don't know why it isn't yet. You'd have to first get a statement from the agency before that discussion can take place

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#283

Post by s1artibartfast »

smeej wrote: post #280
s1artibartfast wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to track and monitor its use if it is not approved. The inquiry and scrutiny exists. Im not sure why you assume it doesnt. Do all of the patients die from the drug? Are doctors administer it as a new fad for the common cold, ect?

I assume it doesn't because U.S.-government-level "inquiry and scrutiny" takes at least an order of magnitude longer than 72 hours. If they're getting this done in time for it to be useful, it's just being rubber-stamped. Do you sincerely think the EU would keep a drug available for common use if everyone who took it died? If not, drop the red herring and try to have a halfway serious discussion.

I do think there is patient tracking after the fact, and that the reason for exemption is examined.

>Do you sincerely think the EU would keep a drug available for common use if everyone who took it died?

No, but this is the type of data the FDA will collect and verify. It is not an approved product so they don't have this data tracking on it like they would for a normal product.

I guess I dont think your central point is credible. You dont think that a form can be examined to see if it has a doctors approval and valid need within 72 hours?

Here is the process if you want to educate yourself:

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/expanded-access/expanded-acc...

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#284

Post by mhb »

marmadukester39 wrote: post #273
mhb wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, realpolitik can still prevail over wokeism in international affairs in which there are obvious life and death consequences.

What does this have to do with wokeism?

Treating different countries differently, even for completely objective and common sensical reasons violates the woke desire for equality of outcome.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#285

Post by lazide »

lazide wrote: post #86
voisin wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like others mentioned, I wouldn’t try it with mushrooms as they aren’t that nutritionally dense relative to the risks. But for plants, I’d do it as soon as I felt the need to eat something. See Into the Wild for an example of a guy whose life it could’ve saved.

I honestly can’t tell if spoof or serious.

For reference, he likely died to bio-accumulation of toxins from seeds he was eating which led to paralysis and starvation [https://www.wemjournal.org/article/S1080-6032(14)00277-4/ful...]

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#286

Post by jeffrallen »

bonoboTP wrote: post #227
dmitrybrant wrote: post #69

I've been foraging mushrooms for 30+ years, and I triple-check every single specimen before cooking it. The idea of a novice forager using an app to identify mushrooms is... unconscionable! Like... breathtakingly stupid. I've commented on this before, but it continues to baffle me how poorly-educated our public is about wild plants, berries, and mushrooms. And stories like this just perpetuate the fear (and stigma?)…

Now I wonder if this thing only exists in Hungary, but here there are lots of mushroom checking stations, typically near markets, where an expert checks your bag of mushrooms. They have an official license from the food safety authority and there is a central register for these mushroom experts. My dad always brought the stuff we picked there, it was close by enough and it's just a totally normal thing here. I would…

It exists in Switzerland too, but in a slightly different form, which differs again by canton.

But if your grandma checks them, no need. :)

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#287

Post by jeffrallen »

superjan wrote: post #222
dreamcompiler wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've only eaten wild mushrooms once. They were picked by a friend I trusted who had been picking them for 20+ years, and he ate them at the same time I did. He damn sure was not using an app on his phone to identify them.

I do hunt mushrooms occasionally, and an app is useful if you understand the limitations. If the app gives you a name, the next thing to do is consult a mushroom book to learn if there is a risk of mixups with poisenous species. In Western Europe, for instance, there is are edible wild champignons that are very similar “groene knol ameniet”, which is deadly. I recently read that fatalities are on the rise because eas…

The problem is that the culture of secrecy around mushrooms makes it uncomfortable to ask those questions in a new place. I learned mushrooms in a certain place, and even after 10 years in a different place I have not learned the local specialities.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#288

Post by jeffrallen »

dmitrybrant wrote: post #100
quirino wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which method do you use for checking the mushrooms?

It's cultural knowledge passed down through generations. Mushroom foraging is super popular in Russia and other Slavic countries, and my grandmother taught me most of the fundamentals before we immigrated to the US, and I continued to study field guide books on my own. When you get to know the specific bits of anatomy of the mushroom body, the trees with which they're symbiotic, the seasons in which they occur, etc.,…

Yes, this.

When you put your fingers on the foot of a bolet, you know immediately, just from the firmness, relative temperature, etc.

It's magical.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#289

Post by jeffrallen »

brycemice wrote: post #278

I am an novice mycologist and I just find it ridiculous that theres people out there picking mushrooms, cooking and eating them without ever having the knowledge of the species of mushrooms that grow in their region. Anyone picking and eating mushys without knowning the harmful species in their regions are simply asking for it. Do it and its only a matter of time before you or your app make a mistake and you end up i…

Mushroom advice you get on the internet should only be used by people who also get legal advice on the Internet.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#290

Post by anm89 »

yosito wrote: post #119
anm89 wrote: post #90

I think this gives people the wrong impression that mushroom foraging is dangerous. It isn't. Anyone can quickly learn to identify the safe edible species around them. But the key is, you have to understand that you should know upfront what species around you, in your current season, are edible and eat only exactly those species. For example, almost anyone can learn to identify chicken of the woods, morels, oysters,…

> the key is, you have to understand that you should know upfront what species around you, in your current season, are edible and eat only exactly those species This is missing a very important factor, which is that there are some edible species with highly toxic lookalikes. These lookalikes are quite common in Ohio, hence why poisonings from misidentified mushrooms are also common.

Operative word being safe:

> learn to identify the safe edible species

The whole point is you shouldn't just run around picking stuff up, taking a run at an identification, and then popping it in your mouth. You should go out already knowing what you are willing to pick based off of what can safely be picked in your area. Safe here means no edible look a likes (or that you know how to differentiate with confidence)

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