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Trying new programming languages helped me grow as a software engineer

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Re: Trying new programming languages helped me grow as a software engineer

#131

Post by mettamage »

lordnacho wrote: post #78

I think the period where I grew the most as a dev was an interlude when I knew I was changing jobs, including moving countries. From having built trading systems in c++, I ended up building, over about a year or so: - A django (python / js) website. It integrated with both Android (java) and iOS (objective-C) apps that could read QR codes and ask the server stuff. It also made me interact with the app stores for the…

How do you get all these different jobs? I’d just hear: you don’t have enough experience in framework/language X.

Re: Trying new programming languages helped me grow as a software engineer

#132

Post by synthc »

rantingdemon wrote: post #71
synthc wrote: post #52

Different languages also have their own culture and ecosystem, which are also valuable to learn in order to get a different perspective. Some things that are taken as best practices are bad practices in other langauges and vice versa. For example, lots of Java devs are against early and multiple returns to the point of absurdity, while in functional languages this is idiomatic and no problem at all. Using different l…

I think this is my first post on HN, but have been a long time lurker. That aside. Your point around ecosystems is interesting to me. As a wannabee coder I'm always trying new things. Most of my code was in PowerShell although I did do a bit of C++ and Delphi in school. I have been dabbling with dotnet core (C#) and Python the last couple of years. I tried to get into Java a bit, but to be frank the learning curve to…

Yes this is an excellent example of different cultures and ecosystems.

In Python a library like requests is a thin abstraction over http calls it is very easy to understand what is going on and get started.

In Java, there is a tendency to wrap everything so it fits with a framework and is super generic and configurable. For example look at the Feign library.

Each approach has its pro's and cons, but knowing both of them good as it allows you to pick the right solution for different use cases.

About getting into java: i'd recommend using Spring Boot. I provides a low abstraction http client (RestTemplate) that allows for straightforward calls to REST services.

Re: Trying new programming languages helped me grow as a software engineer

#133

Post by synthc »

mrighele wrote: post #125
eweise wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For example, lots of Java devs are against early and multiple returns to the point of absurdity, while in functional languages this is idiomatic and no problem at all." Which functional language are you talking about? Of the two functional languages I know, Elm can only have a single return statement. Scala encourages a single return.

In a functional language technically you don’t have multiple returns, because the function is a single expression so in a way you’re right. On the other hand the actual result of the expression is determined on a leaf of the expression so you could consider it a return point To make an example the following expression can be considered to have two returns: max x y = if x > y then x else y The Java equivalent is int m…

Yes this is exactly what I meant. After years of coding in Haskell and Clojure, and then going back to Java I have absolutely no problems with

    int max(int x,int y) { 
      if (x>y) 
        return x;
      else 
        return y;
   }
I just looks completely fine to me, but colleagues would complain about it in reviews and I just don't understant the problem at all. The variant with the extra result variable looks just wierd to me, and I have seen much uglier code written by people desperately avoiding early/multiple returns.

Re: Trying new programming languages helped me grow as a software engineer

#134

Post by lordnacho »

mettamage wrote: post #131
lordnacho wrote: post #78

I think the period where I grew the most as a dev was an interlude when I knew I was changing jobs, including moving countries. From having built trading systems in c++, I ended up building, over about a year or so: - A django (python / js) website. It integrated with both Android (java) and iOS (objective-C) apps that could read QR codes and ask the server stuff. It also made me interact with the app stores for the…

How do you get all these different jobs? I’d just hear: you don’t have enough experience in framework/language X.

It was an interlude, so not the normal leetcode grind.

I knew various people who needed an MVP made for their startup, and with a little bit of familiarity people will let you do things you haven't done before.

Re: Trying new programming languages helped me grow as a software engineer

#135

Post by tomtheelder »

chrsig wrote: post #126

Learning different programming languages definitely helped expose me to new ideas, but I think it's a relatively shallow way to grow. There's only a few that I think are really worth learning for the sake of personal growth: - both C and C++ - Some form of lisp. I could see julia taking this spot. - Haskell - SQL There are obviously more that are worth learning for industrial use. Learning the above will give a solid…

What would you say the value is in learning some sort of lisp? I see the value in all the others, but lisp dialects tend to be pretty vanilla aside from their syntax. I can't think of anything you'd learn from lisp that you wouldn't from Haskell.

Re: Trying new programming languages helped me grow as a software engineer

#137

Post by sicp-enjoyer »

eric4smith wrote: post #17

I’ve worked deeply with about 9 programming languages. Not hobby level, but client work level. They did not really help me to become a better software engineer. What did? Being able to understand the business of the customer and create software that helped them do that easier. That’s why today I tell junior programmers that almost everything we do these days could be accomplished with Bash, text files to hold the dat…

You can write basically the same code with different syntax, or you can learn the paradigms, styles, and idioms associated with each language. That latter is the valuable part because it teaches you a new way to conceptualize and approach problems.

Re: Trying new programming languages helped me grow as a software engineer

#138

Post by nuancebydefault »

chrsig wrote: post #126

Learning different programming languages definitely helped expose me to new ideas, but I think it's a relatively shallow way to grow. There's only a few that I think are really worth learning for the sake of personal growth: - both C and C++ - Some form of lisp. I could see julia taking this spot. - Haskell - SQL There are obviously more that are worth learning for industrial use. Learning the above will give a solid…

I think it is impossible to make a list of programming languages that are worth learning. Just as a comparison, would you also make such a list for normal languages? English, Arabic and Chinese?

Choosing a language to learn depends on, among many more aspects:

* What style do you prefer. Return codes vs exceptions, small lambdas vs elaborate functions...

* What paradigms you find useful (procedural, functional)

* how do you think, rather mathematical, more in a state/execution way or more like cooking (recipes),...

* what applications do you like? Frontend to a store, embedded/industrial, mission critical,...

* simply taste. I hate ruby and love python. For a lot of people it is the other way around.

* do you love optimizing? For what memory, speed?

* Do you prioritize or advocate readability, maintainability, re-use?

In the end you have to choose your battles, you can't master all paradigms and styles in one lifetime.

Re: Trying new programming languages helped me grow as a software engineer

#139

Post by jeff-davis »

A single programming language, isn't always a "single language" across different code bases. Especially for languages like C and C++, there are many different approaches that different code bases use -- memory management strategies, all kinds of internal APIs, different control flow, etc.

Other languages might feel more like a "single language" because they are more domain-specific, and there are established basic libraries that are widely used, so moving from one code base to another is more fluid.

Re: Trying new programming languages helped me grow as a software engineer

#140

Post by mikepurvis »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #138
chrsig wrote: post #126

Learning different programming languages definitely helped expose me to new ideas, but I think it's a relatively shallow way to grow. There's only a few that I think are really worth learning for the sake of personal growth: - both C and C++ - Some form of lisp. I could see julia taking this spot. - Haskell - SQL There are obviously more that are worth learning for industrial use. Learning the above will give a solid…

I think it is impossible to make a list of programming languages that are worth learning. Just as a comparison, would you also make such a list for normal languages? English, Arabic and Chinese? Choosing a language to learn depends on, among many more aspects: * What style do you prefer. Return codes vs exceptions, small lambdas vs elaborate functions... * What paradigms you find useful (procedural, functional) * how…

But I think the point should be to get at least a taste of either end of every one of those continuums, so that you get a broad overview of what kinds of problems are well suited to different sets of tradeoffs. For another silly example, see the difference between rust’s collect and using generators in Python. Same end result with very different semantics.

Without this, there’s a risk that the “learning” is just tunneling in on your own pre-existing prejudices (insert hammer-nail metaphor here).

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