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Scientists discover mechanism of hearing

news.ohsu.edu

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Re: Scientists discover mechanism of hearing

#11
post #6

Was it always a big mystery? Or did we think we understood it the whole time, but only just recently discovered that we actually didn't?

A good deal of this appears, in my opinion, to be the press release overselling what has been done in research with their employees involved now being published in Nature. The function on physical and physiological levels has largely been well understood and that knowledge still stands in the light of this publication.

What the researchers are reporting appears to be a more detailed structural description of this sensory protein complex, and the additional structure information combined with simulations of known physics and chemistry in turn suggests additional detail about of how the "signal" occurs on the molecular level.

Disclaimer that I didn't take time to read the whole thing now, but that's the gist of it from summaries and skimming.

It is, with little doubt, some valuable pieces of information in the context Collective Knowledge of Mankind, and keeping large, complex, multipart molecular machines like this reasonably stable and normal for examination is arduous work, so I don't mean to denigrate the studies or the scientific paper, but as so often the way this is being spun in the press release is regrettable.

Re: Scientists discover mechanism of hearing

#12
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mystery. According to the article and the paper we now have a clear understanding of how it works - the proteins in worms (which are similar to humans in their hearing structures) and their function. So, unless I misread it, we absolutely know how sound > neural impulse works. More: > The initial step in the sensory transduction pathway underpinning hearing and balance in mammals involves the conversion of force into…

>So, unless I misread it, we absolutely know how sound > neural impulse works Am I being unclear? I asked : did we always consider it to be a mystery? Or did we have a different model before? (Which just recently got replaced by this new, better, model)

Read the first word of the reply you're questioning.

Re: Scientists discover mechanism of hearing

#13
Hearing is kind of fascinating if you calculate the power supplied to the eardrum in the ~0 dB range, we're talking about attowatts of sound power generating movements in the single-digit nanometer range, which is still picked up and converted to a neuronal response. Meanwhile the whole thing suppresses the far greater pressure fluctuations due to your heartbeat and other movements quite well, and can reasonably cope with a ~120 dB dynamic range (though this is damaging fairly quickly).

Re: Scientists discover mechanism of hearing

#14
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> very similar to that of humans. I hope it matches, of course, but I've seen enough rat studies to feel like that's weasel wording.

This isn't about a drug. Those have some very specific conditions under which they have to do their thing. This is about a mechanism for transducing oscillatory forces to a neuronal signal, and it describes the exact structure. There are still holes in the pathway, but it looks very interesting to me, and (from my lay understanding) generic enough. You wouldn't say that a study into a rat's retina is completely irrel…

Is it true that rabbit’s eyes are pretty close in structure to that of a human?

Re: Scientists discover mechanism of hearing

#15
post #14
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about a drug. Those have some very specific conditions under which they have to do their thing. This is about a mechanism for transducing oscillatory forces to a neuronal signal, and it describes the exact structure. There are still holes in the pathway, but it looks very interesting to me, and (from my lay understanding) generic enough. You wouldn't say that a study into a rat's retina is completely irrel…

Is it true that rabbit’s eyes are pretty close in structure to that of a human?

Mammals have similar retinas, but they've specialized differently. IIRC, the wiring to the visual cortex is also similar, including the optic chiasm.

Re: Scientists discover mechanism of hearing

#16
post #12
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So, unless I misread it, we absolutely know how sound > neural impulse works Am I being unclear? I asked : did we always consider it to be a mystery? Or did we have a different model before? (Which just recently got replaced by this new, better, model)

Read the first word of the reply you're questioning.

But then he says all that other stuff.

Re: Scientists discover mechanism of hearing

#18

Hearing is kind of fascinating if you calculate the power supplied to the eardrum in the ~0 dB range, we're talking about attowatts of sound power generating movements in the single-digit nanometer range, which is still picked up and converted to a neuronal response. Meanwhile the whole thing suppresses the far greater pressure fluctuations due to your heartbeat and other movements quite well, and can reasonably cope…

And it does FFT in realtime too

Re: Scientists discover mechanism of hearing

#19
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> very similar to that of humans. I hope it matches, of course, but I've seen enough rat studies to feel like that's weasel wording.

This isn't about a drug. Those have some very specific conditions under which they have to do their thing. This is about a mechanism for transducing oscillatory forces to a neuronal signal, and it describes the exact structure. There are still holes in the pathway, but it looks very interesting to me, and (from my lay understanding) generic enough. You wouldn't say that a study into a rat's retina is completely irrel…

> You wouldn't say that a study into a rat's retina is completely irrelevant to human eye sight, would you?

Er, probably? Not completely irrelevant, and perfectly valuable in laying out the groundwork for how we suspect things might work, but I also wouldn't trust it until somebody had it separately verified that human retinas actually worked the same way.

> and (from my lay understanding) generic enough

Yes, if that's true then it's interesting. I'm just extremely cautious of assuming that the things in question are in fact the same. I think the drug analogy does in fact hold, because if the mechanisms were the same them I would expect artificially chemically altering them to play out the same. And also in fairness, that frequently does work! But it also doesn't work in many cases, hence my being extremely cautious until somebody actually does the leg work to verify that humans are actually the same.

Re: Scientists discover mechanism of hearing

#20
post #18

Hearing is kind of fascinating if you calculate the power supplied to the eardrum in the ~0 dB range, we're talking about attowatts of sound power generating movements in the single-digit nanometer range, which is still picked up and converted to a neuronal response. Meanwhile the whole thing suppresses the far greater pressure fluctuations due to your heartbeat and other movements quite well, and can reasonably cope…

And it does FFT in realtime too

It does extract frequency information but not via FFT. Just like the brain computes but not via Turing Machine.
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