Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

cleveland.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 311 posts

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#141

Post by TheDong »

cyphar wrote: post #79
chernofool wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most plant ID apps have a disclaimer saying that you should never eat anything that you use the app to identify. Seek reminds you every time you open the camera. They're mostly intended as entertainment, but some of them use the data to analyze where species are growing in realtime.

Even if that does waive their legal liability (which I'm not sure it does), there is a moral obligation to try to not endanger the many people that the app developers know are going to disregard that warning. It would be intellectually dishonest for the developers of such apps to pretend that everyone who uses their app actually obeys that warning (there are plenty of YouTube videos instructing people to forage for t…

I feel like there's still some sort of line here. I'm sure the developers aren't surprised that some users ignore the warning... but does that mean they failed their moral obligation?

Did the developers of google maps fail their moral obligation if they know some users will follow google map's directions, despite their GPS being broken, and go down wrong streets, walk into walls, get lost without water, etc?

Did the developers of the bird scooter app, which tells you to wear a helmet (but developers know that warning will be ignored), fail their moral obligation since they know some scooter riders won't actually know how to ride and will fall and be injured?

Do the developers of competitive sport apps, like strava, fail a moral obligation since they know some people will injure themselves trying to get on a leaderboard?

Like, I agree that there's a moral obligation for developers. But on the other hand, I feel like you can expect some baseline of "bad users who misuse the app horribly", and it feels like if that's enough to obligate you to not build said app, you just can't build anything. Just about anything can be misused, and at the scale of most apps, it's reasonable to expect it will be.

Is there something about plant identification that makes it more special than the other apps above?

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#142

Post by caust1c »

SpikeDad wrote: post #13
neilv wrote: post #11

> When the app matched his photos of the backyard mushrooms with an edible species, [...] it almost killed him. Now there's an app that'd have to be designed very conscientiously.

Wow. Who would take the liability of an app such as this? Regardless of how many disclaimers you'd have to agree to I could easily see a jury holding the creator of the app liable for a horrible death like that.

It's literally part of the iphone camera, if you weren't aware. Not disagreeing with you, but acknowledging that it's pretty hard to prevent these apps with how accessible machine learning is today, despite accuracy still being difficult for many things.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#143

Post by silisili »

If there's one thing I've learned in my life about mushrooms, it's that there are way, way more varieties than you think, and for any 1 there are 20 that look the same.

I used to hang out on r/mycology, and even experts would ask tons of questions before even making a guess.

There's no way in hell an app can do this reliably, and while I hate to say it, I hope people sue them into oblivion. This isn't something benign like hotdog or not, or bird ID. This has fatal consequences...

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#144

Post by vilhelm_s »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #131
DangitBobby wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why we can't have nice things. This opinion is wild to me. You do not trust a consumer app with life and death decisions, especially over something where the potential upside is getting to eat a mushroom you found and the potential downside is death. Making more criminals is not the answer.

And yet clearly the existence of these apps has made the problem worse. People don't read disclaimers. And people do idiotic things. Now, for a mushroom identification app clearly the only functionality that actually matters is telling edible mushrooms from toxic ones. How is it okay to make fundamentally broken software and then release/sell it as if it's functional? It shouldn't be, just like it isn't for architect…

The article calls it a "plant identification app", I guess it's not specifically for mushrooms.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#145

Post by selimthegrim »

pfdietz wrote: post #66
chrisgd wrote: post #16

Why do people like eating mushrooms from the woods? How much of it is the potential risk? There are plenty of options at the grocery store.

I know, right? What's the upside? Possibly interesting flavor. What's the downside. AGONY AND DEATH. Why is this even a question?

Fugu would like a word.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#146

Post by morsch »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #131
DangitBobby wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why we can't have nice things. This opinion is wild to me. You do not trust a consumer app with life and death decisions, especially over something where the potential upside is getting to eat a mushroom you found and the potential downside is death. Making more criminals is not the answer.

And yet clearly the existence of these apps has made the problem worse. People don't read disclaimers. And people do idiotic things. Now, for a mushroom identification app clearly the only functionality that actually matters is telling edible mushrooms from toxic ones. How is it okay to make fundamentally broken software and then release/sell it as if it's functional? It shouldn't be, just like it isn't for architect…

We don't know if it made "the problem" worse. It certainly made it worse for the guy getting poisoned. But it's possible that for each person getting poisoned, there's a couple not getting poisoned because the app correctly ID'd a mushroom.

Or a hundred people who have their intellectual curiosity satisfied. I recently used Google Lens to ID (with like 75% confidence) a mushroom I had zero intention of eating either way.

Mushroom identifying books have all of the same issues. I guess one could make an argument that it's unconscionable to publish those, too.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#147

Post by Merad »

1letterunixname wrote: post #120
mattigames wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the ridiculous prices of health care in America it's likely also cheaper too.

A bicycle accident bill can be over 100k USD without any surgery or being admitted overnight. Having a stroke can be 500-600k which might cause another upon seeing the bill.

The US healthcare system is all kinds of messed up, but this sounds like FUD territory. I was hospitalized for 12 days earlier this year for what ended up being a heart issue. Not as "exciting" as a stroke perhaps but I'd have ended up very dead without modern medicine. The total bill sent to insurance was $85k and I ended up having to pay $5k.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#148

Post by franze »

ncann wrote: post #103
dmitrybrant wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest I don't recall the last time I've ever accidentally picked up a poisonous specimen along with the good ones I was intending to pick. At this point it's such second-nature that telling apart an edible vs. poisonous mushroom is like telling a bottle of milk from a bottle of Drano. And yet I still examine each one at home before putting it in the pot. The other thing is that the truly deadly varieties, such…

I think I read somewhere before about how if a mushroom is white, then stay away from it. How true is this from your experience?

I avoid white and white-ish (i.e.: green-white). It significantly a but not totally- reduces the risk in my area.

Everything else a good book for identification. If its not 100% clear that it is editable, it gets thrown away.

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#149

Post by junglistguy »

WalterBright wrote: post #93
dmitrybrant wrote: post #69

I've been foraging mushrooms for 30+ years, and I triple-check every single specimen before cooking it. The idea of a novice forager using an app to identify mushrooms is... unconscionable! Like... breathtakingly stupid. I've commented on this before, but it continues to baffle me how poorly-educated our public is about wild plants, berries, and mushrooms. And stories like this just perpetuate the fear (and stigma?)…

If I was an expert, I still wouldn't eat them after triple-checking them. I don't think they taste so good that they're worth any risk. It's not like they're chocolate.

If everyone was like you, we would never have made it to the moon

Re: A rash of nearly lethal mushroom poisonings in Ohio

#150

Post by junglistguy »

MikePlacid wrote: post #140
WalterBright wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was an expert, I still wouldn't eat them after triple-checking them. I don't think they taste so good that they're worth any risk. It's not like they're chocolate.

Actually gathering mushrooms is not about the taste. It’s about the process. Like hunt, but without killing any animal, or like fishing but without killing any fish. There is a nice book about this aspect of mushroom gathering, The Third Hunt by Vladimir Soloukhin: https://www.nhbs.com/the-third-hunt-book I agree with the thread-starter that some actions look incredibly stupid, like an attempt to eat something simila…

I collect for taste, they are delicious
Post reply on HN