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Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

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Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#411

Post by nightski »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #328
nightski wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get rid of factory farming without going vegan.

If you look at the statistics, in the developed world factory farming makes up about 98% of all meat produced commercially. Before I stopped eating meat, I thought the meat I was buying came from good sources. The farms were nearby, conditions seemed okay, it was organic, etc. The reality is that all of these animals don’t have good lives. They don’t eat well. They live in bizarre conditions. The vast majority (nearl…

Most of the meat I buy is from a local farmer in the Midwest. We buy an entire cow at a time and some pork. Yes we eat meat outside of this, but it's not often. I don't need to solve the entire industry to take a different path myself.

Frankly, meat tastes a lot better when the animal is treated better.

I personally think your argument is really twisting the data in your favor, but it's not a debate I am really interested in having. I've researched this extensively.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#412

Post by jagger27 »

pxmpxm wrote: post #399
TulliusCicero wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean yeah, using gas to heat homes is dumb. Electrically powered heat pumps seem like the way to go.

Cost of resistive heating is around 2-5x the amount you'd pay for nat gas equivalent. Probably not that dumb, unless your actually point is that poor people just need to be cold for climate change.

That’s precisely why the post you replied to said heat pumps, not resistive heating.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#413

Post by TulliusCicero »

vixen99 wrote: post #368
TulliusCicero wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean yeah, using gas to heat homes is dumb. Electrically powered heat pumps seem like the way to go.

Maybe in your part of the world. But grant me that it would be dumb to pay twice as much for electricity as for gas to heat my home to the same temperature which is the case. Heat pumps? For huge numbers of poor people across the world this a Marie Antoinette-esque gesture. I'm aware that there's no evidence she ever said words to the effect 'let them eat cakes' (people had no bread) but we all understand the metapho…

> Heat pumps? For huge numbers of poor people across the world this a Marie Antoinette-esque gesture.

We were specifically talking about Europe. And there, lots of people even in relatively wealthy countries like Germany still use gas for heating. The government could definitely be encouraging/subsidizing the use of heat pumps instead.

Obviously the idea is for transitioning where it's economically feasible, not demanding that poor people freeze to death, jesus christ.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#414

Post by kennywinker »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #250
kennywinker wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People call out tragedy of the commons a lot, for cases where it seems like purely a tragedy of capitalism. Nobody overfished these crabs to eat themselves. A globalized food market was willing to pay for crab, and has no mechanism to value long term supply. People who think it’s wrong to overfish will stop, and people who don’t care will replace them as long as the market is willing to pay. What part of that require…

> cases where it seems like purely a tragedy of capitalism We have evidence the Hudson Bay was being overfished for oysters in the decades preceding European settlement. Any explanation beginning and ending with capitalism is about as useless as blaming every problem on greed.

Your single example of over-exploitation outside of capitalism doesn’t refute my point at all. Nobody thinks it’s impossible to over-exploit without capitalism, it’s that without capitalism we don’t have a huge incentive to do it, and it happening on a GLOBAL scale. But yeah, ok, some declines in oysters in one body of water.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#415

Post by pas »

vixen99 wrote: post #368
TulliusCicero wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean yeah, using gas to heat homes is dumb. Electrically powered heat pumps seem like the way to go.

Maybe in your part of the world. But grant me that it would be dumb to pay twice as much for electricity as for gas to heat my home to the same temperature which is the case. Heat pumps? For huge numbers of poor people across the world this a Marie Antoinette-esque gesture. I'm aware that there's no evidence she ever said words to the effect 'let them eat cakes' (people had no bread) but we all understand the metapho…

running gas pipes isn't free either.

and the current price is not the total cost, which should include externalities like this. (yes, electricity generation currently is also mostly a GHG emitting travesty, but not fundamentally, like nat.gas.)

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#416

Post by steve_adams_86 »

nightski wrote: post #411
steve_adams_86 wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the statistics, in the developed world factory farming makes up about 98% of all meat produced commercially. Before I stopped eating meat, I thought the meat I was buying came from good sources. The farms were nearby, conditions seemed okay, it was organic, etc. The reality is that all of these animals don’t have good lives. They don’t eat well. They live in bizarre conditions. The vast majority (nearl…

Most of the meat I buy is from a local farmer in the Midwest. We buy an entire cow at a time and some pork. Yes we eat meat outside of this, but it's not often. I don't need to solve the entire industry to take a different path myself. Frankly, meat tastes a lot better when the animal is treated better. I personally think your argument is really twisting the data in your favor, but it's not a debate I am really inter…

I’m interested to know how I might be twisting the data in my favour.

I’m totally okay with not debating it; we’re all allowed to make our own choices.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#417

Post by [deleted] »

mikro2nd wrote: post #361
cmsj wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "billions who subsist on seafood will now have to eat eggs, pork, beef" There is another possible outcome... :/

Soylent Green? (referring to the original 1970s movie, not the faux-food thing some grifter tried to flog a few years ago)

[deleted]

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#418

Post by drks91 »

kennywinker wrote: post #242
WalterBright wrote: post #127

Overfishing is a classic problem of "Tragedy of the Commons". The oceans are the commons. For example, nobody is predicting a catastrophic decline in the population of pigs, chickens, and cattle. Fish farming is the future.

People call out tragedy of the commons a lot, for cases where it seems like purely a tragedy of capitalism. Nobody overfished these crabs to eat themselves. A globalized food market was willing to pay for crab, and has no mechanism to value long term supply. People who think it’s wrong to overfish will stop, and people who don’t care will replace them as long as the market is willing to pay. What part of that require…

On other news, Soviet Union destroyed the Aral Sea trying to grow cotton in the desert.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#419

Post by LtdJorge »

DFHippie wrote: post #134
pgrote wrote: post #42

The Seattle Times joined followed a carb boat in April of 2022. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/into-t... The captain's take on the issue includes climate change, over crabbing areas known to be struggling and trawling. The article also includes an explanation as to how cod could be responsible due to climate change offering less ice protection for the crab.

> carb boat Heh heh. I imagine fishermen hauling in a net full of potatoes and pasta.

I understoo it as carburated boat at first, so no wonder climate change is coming from it, lol.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#420

Post by llbeansandrice »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #243
llbeansandrice wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you able to implicate the regulations here directly? The fishery collapsed 90% in 2 years, something else is at play.

said every fisherman ever. In the maritimes when the cod collapsed they blamed seals.

Cod collapsed 90% in _30 years_ and was not regulated in nearly the same way as snow crab is. Your dismissive tone isn't constructive and betrays your lack of knowledge.
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