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UK Engineers raise concerns over proposed switch to imperial measurements

newcivilengineer.com

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Re: UK Engineers raise concerns over proposed switch to imperial measurements

#71

Post by 323 »

bitcharmer wrote: post #58
323 wrote: post #48

UK is a confused place. I still don't know whats the "official" temperature scale - F or C. In the same paper, I would see the weather map with C, but the title with F (heatwave of xx F). Or the reverse, or both. Or in the same shop you can buy milk in liters, or in pints.

I feel like you're making this up. No one here uses Fahrenheit.

This summer, DailyMail, one of the biggest newspapers:

> Title: Britain goes into meltdown over 106F hottest day EVER that is set to hit on Monday and Tuesday

> Subtitle: Parts of London set to hit 41C (106F) next Monday and Tuesday - smashing all-time UK record of 38.7C (101.6F)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11019683/Britain-en...

> Summer is officially here! North East braces for sweltering 96F heatwave after Memorial Day as revelers flock to the beaches and parks to cool down

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10868043/North-East...

Re: UK Engineers raise concerns over proposed switch to imperial measurements

#72

Post by deadbunny »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #53

Everybody's shitting on Imperial, U.S. customary, or whatever you want to call them units... Allow me to give a slightly different perspective: as a scientist, if I'm doing chemistry then metric is the way to go. Conversions are easier, centigrade and Kelvin just make a lot more sense... But for many day-to-day things I think the Imperial units are better. Temperature? Fahrenheit is a 0-100 scale, where 0 is pretty m…

Pretty sure you're just more used to/think in imperial beacause that's what you've used all your life. I can estimate metric perfectly fine.

Re: UK Engineers raise concerns over proposed switch to imperial measurements

#73

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

Bayart wrote: post #68
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #53

Everybody's shitting on Imperial, U.S. customary, or whatever you want to call them units... Allow me to give a slightly different perspective: as a scientist, if I'm doing chemistry then metric is the way to go. Conversions are easier, centigrade and Kelvin just make a lot more sense... But for many day-to-day things I think the Imperial units are better. Temperature? Fahrenheit is a 0-100 scale, where 0 is pretty m…

French perspective here : everybody uses centimeters and millimeters are common. I just came from a hair cut and the girl doing it asked for my clipper size in millimeters . I have an intuition, and it's usually pretty close, for how much à millimeter, centimeter, meter and kilometer are. All that to say it's got everything to do with habit and not random size body parts.

What I'm curious about is whether people raised with the metric system and nothing else are more accurate in estimating e.g. lengths than people raised primarily with Imperial / U.S. customary.

So we do an experiment where we have people look at, and maybe handle, random objects and then ask them to estimate the length. Does imperial / metric make a difference? My guess is no, but I have significant probability weight on yes...maybe 20%. And wouldn't that be cool!

Re: UK Engineers raise concerns over proposed switch to imperial measurements

#74

Post by cassianoleal »

Reason077 wrote: post #31
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #15

Observation as a Canadian: Until the US decides to finally convert (e.g. never), the rest of the anglo-sphere will be forever stuck in an awkward inbetween zone anyways. We supposedly converted to metric in the 70s but it's only ever been half-hearted, as many trades (especially construction) continue to work in imperial measurements, and most people work in an awkward combination of the two. As Canadians we typicall…

> "As Canadians we typically measure our height and weight in ft and lbs. But temperature in celsius and travel distances and speeds in kilometres and km/h. Except for cooking/recipes, where oven temperature is measured in fahrenheit and we have to deal with recipes with cups and ounces and so on. ... But recipes are also often in litres and grams. So.." As British we typically measure everything in metric, including…

And people's heights in feet and inches. Many times I had to convert because my British friends couldn't picture a height in metres and centimetres.

Re: UK Engineers raise concerns over proposed switch to imperial measurements

#75

Post by StewardMcOy »

tzs wrote: post #43

OT: Can I ask a question about something that has long puzzled me about Brexit? Note: I'm not asking about whether or not Brexit was a good idea. No matter where you stand on that, let's assume for the sake of argument that there were terrific arguments for both staying in the EU and leaving. My puzzlement concerns the specific question asked on the 2016 referendum, which was > Should the United Kingdom remain a memb…

The missing piece here is that the referendum was designed by people who wanted and expected remain to win. David Cameron, the PM at the time, was facing a minor rebellion within his own party from a faction of MPs that were anti-EU. They weren't a majority of the party, but they were large enough to cause trouble.

A couple years prior, he had faced a similar problem from Scottish nationalists, so he approved a referendum on Scottish independence. He was against independence, but when Scotland voted to remain a part of the UK, it weakened the arguments of the Scottish nationalists, making his job easier. He figured he could do the same with Brexit. Nobody seriously expected leave to win.

Problem was, it turned out there was a lot of money in leaving the EU. It would make tax dodges easier for the ultra-rich, and it would allow disaster capitalists to make a killing by shorting the market. So money flowed into the leave campaign from wealthy donors hoping to make a killing. As a result, leave ran a much slicker campaign.

All this might not have been enough for leave to win, but people were also pissed off at the government for years of austerity policies and a flagging economy since the 2008 crash. Lots of people, saw the vote as a way to express their displeasure in the government. Some of those who voted leave never expected it to win.

SO yes, you're right. The referendum was poorly worded and poorly planned. This was evident in the immediate aftermath. The House of Commons could not agree at all on what to do. A large chunk still backed remaining, but not a majority. Lots of MPs decided that, even though they knew Brexit was a bad idea, their constituents had voted for it, so they needed to switch sides. They didn't all switch to the same side though. Some wanted a no-deal Brexit. Some wanted to remain in the customs union and single market. Others wanted different arrangements. There was no majority for any course of action, because the referendum didn't describe a course of action, and it paralyzed UK politics for years.

Re: UK Engineers raise concerns over proposed switch to imperial measurements

#76

Post by gonzo41 »

Ylpertnodi wrote: post #67
gonzo41 wrote: post #12

What the actual F. That is just insane. Brexit has been such a rolling disaster. It's constantly reminds me why compulsory voting in Australia is the best thing since sliced bread. It's just insane what the British have decided to do to themselves.

>It's constantly reminds me why compulsory voting in Australia is the best thing since sliced bread. How about letting people decide if they wish, or not, to partake in a system that is rigged on either side? A choice of 'either pile of shit', is not necessarily a choice that is acceptable to those that would prefer their bread without. I am horribly anti-brexit, it has caused me and so many I know so much grief. I h…

You're forced to follow all the other many, many, many rules in Britain. Yet you think you're being denied a freedom by the possibility of being required to participate in a process that results in changes to the laws that you obey. Making a choice between two bad options is pretty much the whole of life.

You have been tricked into thinking that abstaining is a choice your making, and not an outcom that you've been led into by a society that's letting you down and exploiting your grievances.

When everyone votes, the candidates have to generally be more competitive. More balanced and less extreme.

Anyway, good luck with Brexit and the journey to the center of last century.

Re: UK Engineers raise concerns over proposed switch to imperial measurements

#77

Post by gpderetta »

cuttysnark wrote: post #57
gpderetta wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And human weight in stones. Been living here for more than 10 years and still can't remember how much is a stone.

1 stone = 14lbs. Learned this "whilst" (another chiefly British word) at study abroad in England. Ever after thought of the Bush album "Sixteen Stone" in a different light.

Of course I never remember that a how much a pound is.

From my d&d days (when we mix and matched Italian and English material) I remember that 2.5lbs is about 1kg, but that's a very rough approximation. Similarly I remember that 10ft is ~3m.

Re: UK Engineers raise concerns over proposed switch to imperial measurements

#78

Post by KineticLensman »

Ylpertnodi wrote: post #65
KineticLensman wrote: post #44

As reported in [0], the UK Government survey asked consumers: “If you had a choice, would you want to purchase items: i) in imperial units ii) in imperial units alongside a metric equivalent.” There was no option iii) for using metric only (except a freeform entry field). Talk about biased. I suppose we should be thankful that the recent self-inflicted destruction of the UK Govt's credibility has at least probably sa…

...not convinced 'fortnight' is actually imperial (as opposed to just old): https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fortnight Middle English fourtenight, alteration of fourtene night, from Old English fēowertȳne niht fourteen nights. (First Known Use of silver lining - 1871, same source) ...and as for etc (Et cetera), may I offer you my contrafibularities.

Yes, I wasn't being totally serious. Pro-metric people sometimes jokingly refer to the 'imperial' 3F system by analogy with the SI system and others.

I think 'Fortnight' is rapidly falling out of use in British English. I would be much more likely to say 'a couple of weeks'

Re: UK Engineers raise concerns over proposed switch to imperial measurements

#79

Post by hyperman1 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #38
Reason077 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "As Canadians we typically measure our height and weight in ft and lbs. But temperature in celsius and travel distances and speeds in kilometres and km/h. Except for cooking/recipes, where oven temperature is measured in fahrenheit and we have to deal with recipes with cups and ounces and so on. ... But recipes are also often in litres and grams. So.." As British we typically measure everything in metric, including…

Yes I always find this funny. England is kind of totally opposite from Canada. Distances and speeds in miles, everything else metric. Our speedometers can all switch, too these days. For travel into the US. Even Google maps will switch units right after you cross the border. FWIW MPH has the advantage that it's easier to estimate travel times based on typical 60MPH hwy speed. A minute per mile more or less. 100KMH is…

As an european: Our speed limit is generally 120 km/h and maps very well to time units. We wonder how you cope with your 74 mph

Re: UK Engineers raise concerns over proposed switch to imperial measurements

#80

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

deadbunny wrote: post #72
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #53

Everybody's shitting on Imperial, U.S. customary, or whatever you want to call them units... Allow me to give a slightly different perspective: as a scientist, if I'm doing chemistry then metric is the way to go. Conversions are easier, centigrade and Kelvin just make a lot more sense... But for many day-to-day things I think the Imperial units are better. Temperature? Fahrenheit is a 0-100 scale, where 0 is pretty m…

Pretty sure you're just more used to/think in imperial beacause that's what you've used all your life. I can estimate metric perfectly fine.

I've used both. But it's going to feel "perfectly fine" to everyone! That's why we need an experiment to answer the question.
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