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Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

cnbc.com

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Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#71

Post by simonh »

skinnymuch wrote: post #61
simonh wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really isn’t. I’m kind of fed up with people, who live at a time of unprecedented wealth freedom and opportunity, complaining how bad things are while the state of the world around them improves dramatically. I was reading about poverty in the UK recently, the numbers are poor, but then I noticed that poverty is defined by a proportion of average wages. That means as wages go up, so does the poverty threshold. It…

This is a common rhetoric by [neo]liberals like Bill Gates, Pinker (both friends with Epstein too…), Peterson, Bari Weiss. Pinker has at least one book wholly focused on this rhetoric. The problem is, this stuff could have been said 20, 50, or 150 years ago. Always can say “look at all the progress, why are people complaining about stuff”. And this is what has happened historically. People want to keep the status quo…

Dissatisfaction is the spur toward progress, but the point is there is progress. It's complaining that things are always getting worse, or even that progress isn't possible and things are always getting worse that winds me up. Maybe being in my 50s gives me a different view of it than those much younger.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#72

Post by junofan »

sarchertech wrote: post #62
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes, and when I paid my speeding ticket last week I proved I was smuggling drugs down the interstate.

Well he settled Securities Fraud charges, so it stands to reason there was likely securities fraud. He also had to step down as chairman, appoint 2 new independent directors, and appoint an independent board to oversee his public communications. If you paid a drug smuggling fine and as part of the process admitted to smuggling drugs, I might be inclined to label you a drug smuggler as well.

Why didn’t the SEC negotiate guilt then? After all, they tend to do that.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#73

Post by Reason077 »

skinnymuch wrote: post #58
Reason077 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Far bigger frauds have happened. I'd argue Nikola's fraud was pretty minor in comparison to the likes of Madoff, Enron, or Theranos. At least the only victims here were investors - many of whom probably realised or suspected that Milton was exaggerating the company's progress, but were happy to play along as long as it kept pumping the value of their investments.

Check Nikola spots like the subreddit, Twitter, Stocktwits. Lots of bag holders who are technically investors, but really just ordinary middle class people in deep losses from Nikola. Still nothing close to the examples you gave but Theranos is as blatantly a con from the get go as Nikola.

I think the difference with Theranos is that most of us were genuinely surprised and shocked when it all started to unravel to the extent that it did.

With Nikola, there were plenty of skeptics right from the start. The only surprise what that it went on for as long as it did, and that the stock price kept going up even after much of their deception was exposed.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#74

Post by rvz »

coffeeblack wrote: post #47
rvz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also "Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured." was complete securities fraud and he paid for the charges. So by paying for the charges, he told the SEC he is a fraudster without telling them he is a fraudster.

Except he actually did consider it and negotiated with investors. How is it fraught when you investigate a business opportunity? So many salty shorts itt.

> Except he actually did consider it and negotiated with investors. How is it fraught when you investigate a business opportunity?

Even if what said was 'truthful', he would have filed is intentions with the SEC to begin with but didn't. Actions speak louder than words and he still hasn't done anything to take Tesla private after paying for the charges.

> So many salty shorts itt.

Shorted what? Yeah I shorted NKLA [0], and told everyone to do so in the open and laughed all the way to the bank.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27996773

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#75

Post by useruser1234 »

simonh wrote: post #38
llanowarelves wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America and Europe are much lower trust than they used to be. Can you leave a laptop unattended in busy Starbucks downtown in major cities? How much does "the honor system" still work everywhere in society? Japan is now the benchmark for high trust societies, and they copied a lot from Germany (educational system, civil codes, uniforms, many loan words for things still a reminder) nearer its social peak to get there.…

People think things are getting worse, and that their friends and neighbours with different political views are their enemies, or outright traitors. They think these things because that’s what they are constantly being told in the media, on the left and right. Fear sells. My mother is a good example, she’s a comfortably retired ex teacher who owns her own house, has a cottage in France and lives in an idyllic country…

Same with mine in the US. I have yet to see these terrifying murderous people.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#76

Post by eunos »

agumonkey wrote: post #51
simonh wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really isn’t. I’m kind of fed up with people, who live at a time of unprecedented wealth freedom and opportunity, complaining how bad things are while the state of the world around them improves dramatically. I was reading about poverty in the UK recently, the numbers are poor, but then I noticed that poverty is defined by a proportion of average wages. That means as wages go up, so does the poverty threshold. It…

I find these numbers a bit weak. Your life is not a flat basket of goods, it's more of a graph (pyramid would say maslow) and today it's hard to get a flat but easy to get Gbps link on your flagship smartphone, but it doesn't make your life great in the end.

>but it doesn't make your life great in the end.

Are you willing to exchange that? That is have much cheaped rents relative to your income but your internet speed go down to sub Mbps.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#77

Post by phatfish »

hef19898 wrote: post #69
jylam wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They announced a lot of things since the announcement in 2017 though. Let's not take Tesla's announcements as anything else than stunts for now, like, really.

And meanwhile Volvo has three fully electrical semis in serial production and Mercedes started serial production of an electric Actros.

Yup, plenty of large electric commercial vehicles on the road already, mainly in Norway I'd bet.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#78

Post by rvz »

saberience wrote: post #70
rvz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why [0] > The Securities and Exchange Commission announced today that Elon Musk, CEO and Chairman of Silicon Valley-based Tesla Inc., has agreed to settle the securities fraud charge brought by the SEC against him last week. The SEC also today charged Tesla with failing to have required disclosure controls and procedures relating to Musk’s tweets, a charge that Tesla has agreed to settle. Essentially by agree…

But this is basically due to Elons reckless tweeting. It’s quite different to faking the creation of an electric car like Trevor Milton. Elon may be guilty of being an idiot and not thinking before he tweets, but he pushed forward electric cars and rocketry more than any other person currently living I would say.

> But this is basically due to Elons reckless tweeting. It’s quite different to faking the creation of an electric car like Trevor Milton.

Securities fraud is fraud.

What you said doesn't refute anything on both of them committing securities fraud, which still makes them both fraudsters. Elon Musk didn't file his intentions with the SEC about what he said and he knew it was a lie to investors.

> Elon may be guilty of being an idiot and not thinking before he tweets, but he pushed forward electric cars and rocketry more than any other person currently living I would say.

The is no amount of apologism to realize that he is a fraudster; that is even before mentioning the FSD Level 5 robo-taxi false promises.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#79

Post by phpthrowaway99 »

sarchertech wrote: post #62
phpthrowaway99 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes, and when I paid my speeding ticket last week I proved I was smuggling drugs down the interstate.

Well he settled Securities Fraud charges, so it stands to reason there was likely securities fraud. He also had to step down as chairman, appoint 2 new independent directors, and appoint an independent board to oversee his public communications. If you paid a drug smuggling fine and as part of the process admitted to smuggling drugs, I might be inclined to label you a drug smuggler as well.

I wouldn't say he settle what I consider "securities fraud" even if that's the technical label, just like I wouldn't say someone that got a speeding ticket violated "federal interstate travel statues" by speeding on I5.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#80

Post by piva00 »

saberience wrote: post #70
rvz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why [0] > The Securities and Exchange Commission announced today that Elon Musk, CEO and Chairman of Silicon Valley-based Tesla Inc., has agreed to settle the securities fraud charge brought by the SEC against him last week. The SEC also today charged Tesla with failing to have required disclosure controls and procedures relating to Musk’s tweets, a charge that Tesla has agreed to settle. Essentially by agree…

But this is basically due to Elons reckless tweeting. It’s quite different to faking the creation of an electric car like Trevor Milton. Elon may be guilty of being an idiot and not thinking before he tweets, but he pushed forward electric cars and rocketry more than any other person currently living I would say.

He is not a total hack like Milton but the promises for years that FSD is right around the corner are borderline fraudulent.

Reckless tweeting or not, the SEC considers it fraud, at least legally he is a fraudster.

Trevor Milton is definitely much more in the Elizabeth Holmes' school of fraud though.

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