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Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

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Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#31

Post by paganel »

simonh wrote: post #24
keepquestioning wrote: post #11

I remember when some FAANG buddies of mine were gloating about gains made of NKLA. It reminded me no one gives a fuck if their money is made by corruption, fraud or unethical activity. The world is truly a "Fuck you, I've got mine" type of place. Never forget it, and never trust anyone. I see the same story playing out in the Celsius network crap.

It really isn’t. I’m kind of fed up with people, who live at a time of unprecedented wealth freedom and opportunity, complaining how bad things are while the state of the world around them improves dramatically. I was reading about poverty in the UK recently, the numbers are poor, but then I noticed that poverty is defined by a proportion of average wages. That means as wages go up, so does the poverty threshold. It…

> It turns out people in poverty in the UK now have double the spending power of those in the 1980s.

Do they have double the access to affordable housing? Or to good-enough and cheap healthcare? (I know about the NHS, I also know that their waiting list has exceeded 7 million recently). Can they send their kids to schools good enough for those kids to be able to have a real chance in life later on?

Because, at the end, poverty is defined by the answers to those questions, it doesn't matter that lots of "poor" people can now purchase smartphones and flat TVs while Queen Victoria 150 years ago couldn't.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#33

Post by veltas »

joering2 wrote: post #17
veltas wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hindenburg said the truck was “towed to the top of a hill on a remote stretch of road and simply filmed it rolling down the hill.” It was then used in a video, which Nikola said was created by a third party, in which the truck appeared to be driving on its own propulsion on flat roads. It's all relative. How much is hype or marketing, and how much is just dishonesty? I think it depends on the field. I mean even the…

I don't find it dishonest, rather brilliant he found a hill the truck rolled down from. The whole ordeal was the weakest chain of the whole lawsuit - most of the time the tech showed is not 100% working. The truck showed would not be on sale anyways, but obviously whatever would leave a factory. Musk showed houses that did not even have real solar panels even thought he told people in their faces these are solar pane…

I mean it can be brilliant and dishonest. But it's not that brilliant. I don't know if that's what he was accused of fraud for.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#34

Post by gmd63 »

joering2 wrote: post #17
veltas wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hindenburg said the truck was “towed to the top of a hill on a remote stretch of road and simply filmed it rolling down the hill.” It was then used in a video, which Nikola said was created by a third party, in which the truck appeared to be driving on its own propulsion on flat roads. It's all relative. How much is hype or marketing, and how much is just dishonesty? I think it depends on the field. I mean even the…

I don't find it dishonest, rather brilliant he found a hill the truck rolled down from. The whole ordeal was the weakest chain of the whole lawsuit - most of the time the tech showed is not 100% working. The truck showed would not be on sale anyways, but obviously whatever would leave a factory. Musk showed houses that did not even have real solar panels even thought he told people in their faces these are solar pane…

What is "brilliant" about faking a car moving with the intent of misleading your investors, who are redirecting to you vast amounts of wealth from more deserving companies that would make society a better place?

You're stealing from companies that create economic acceleration to create economic friction.

If we keep rewarding scammers with this notion that they're doing anything remotely of value, we end up with a society of Roger Stone and Trump types who are really good at seeking out and winning negative sum games.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#35

Post by simonh »

paganel wrote: post #31
simonh wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really isn’t. I’m kind of fed up with people, who live at a time of unprecedented wealth freedom and opportunity, complaining how bad things are while the state of the world around them improves dramatically. I was reading about poverty in the UK recently, the numbers are poor, but then I noticed that poverty is defined by a proportion of average wages. That means as wages go up, so does the poverty threshold. It…

> It turns out people in poverty in the UK now have double the spending power of those in the 1980s. Do they have double the access to affordable housing? Or to good-enough and cheap healthcare? (I know about the NHS, I also know that their waiting list has exceeded 7 million recently). Can they send their kids to schools good enough for those kids to be able to have a real chance in life later on? Because, at the en…

Most of those NHS waiting lists didn’t even exist back in the 80s. That’s another case where a “worse” statistic hides a massive underlying improvement. Were spending twice as much on health care now as a proportion of GDP, and our GDP has doubled in real terms.

I use the 80s as my reference because those are the days of my youth, when I became politically aware so it’s the benchmark I look back to.

I’ve looked for studies on access to education and outcomes for those in poverty over time and not come up with anything. Lots of studies how poverty affects education, but none so far on how that has changed. Anyone know?

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#36

Post by rvz »

0xy wrote: post #12
europeanguy wrote: post #3

[flagged]

"We think we can do self driving in a year" (very unrealistic prediction) versus "we have a working truck prototype" (literally false). Being an optimist isn't fraud.

So why did he pay for the fraud charges against him then for his misleading tweets? [0]

> Musk and Tesla have agreed to settle the charges against them without admitting or denying the SEC’s allegations.

He knew he committed securities fraud, and now he is under federal investigation over the Twitter deal.

There is no need to be a Elon apologist, since everyone knows he is a fraudster. That is before I mentioned about the FSD scandals.

[0] https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#37

Post by Reason077 »

sidcool wrote: post #16

Trevor deserves it. I have been following Nikola out of curiosity and there were glaring red flags all the way. So many inconsistencies across interviews. Repeatedly saying "It's not a pusher", "I can out Elon, Elon", "We are vertically integrated" bla bla.

No post body was provided.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#38

Post by simonh »

llanowarelves wrote: post #30
simonh wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really isn’t. I’m kind of fed up with people, who live at a time of unprecedented wealth freedom and opportunity, complaining how bad things are while the state of the world around them improves dramatically. I was reading about poverty in the UK recently, the numbers are poor, but then I noticed that poverty is defined by a proportion of average wages. That means as wages go up, so does the poverty threshold. It…

America and Europe are much lower trust than they used to be. Can you leave a laptop unattended in busy Starbucks downtown in major cities? How much does "the honor system" still work everywhere in society? Japan is now the benchmark for high trust societies, and they copied a lot from Germany (educational system, civil codes, uniforms, many loan words for things still a reminder) nearer its social peak to get there.…

People think things are getting worse, and that their friends and neighbours with different political views are their enemies, or outright traitors. They think these things because that’s what they are constantly being told in the media, on the left and right. Fear sells.

My mother is a good example, she’s a comfortably retired ex teacher who owns her own house, has a cottage in France and lives in an idyllic country village in rural Britain. Yet she lives in fear of immigrants and refugees coming to rape and steal, and socialists destroying everything good and right, because the Daily Mail is keeping her in a state of constant terror.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#39

Post by rvz »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #28

Then Musk with his "Paint it black" Autopilot/FSD video should be in jail for fraud as well. What is the difference here? Both products weren't nowhere near where marketing was trying to show.

Also "Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured." was complete securities fraud and he paid for the charges.

So by paying for the charges, he told the SEC he is a fraudster without telling them he is a fraudster.

Re: Nikola founder Trevor Milton found guilty of fraud

#40

Post by rvz »

sidcool wrote: post #16

Trevor deserves it. I have been following Nikola out of curiosity and there were glaring red flags all the way. So many inconsistencies across interviews. Repeatedly saying "It's not a pusher", "I can out Elon, Elon", "We are vertically integrated" bla bla.

No post body was provided.
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