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Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

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Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#181

Overfishing is a classic problem of "Tragedy of the Commons". The oceans are the commons. For example, nobody is predicting a catastrophic decline in the population of pigs, chickens, and cattle. Fish farming is the future.

Disease like CWD and avian flu can result in massive culls of farmed animals. High density animal farming bears risk of epidemics, and fish farming is no exception. As with most things in life, there are no easy answers.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#182
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that people en masse don’t actually care all that much about the cruelty of killing animals so long as it’s not reasonably torturous. The future, however dystopian you may see it, is sustainably growing the animals we want to eat for slaughter.

The concept of "reasonably torturous" is pretty wild.

Agreed, if you have to include the word torture in the descriptor of food production than there’s already an ethical problem to solve.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#183

Well, I don't like any seafood, so, on the one hand this does not affect me at all. On the other hand... this is just one more piece of data to add to the ever growing pile of how badly we are ruining the planet for any life above the level of single cell organisms. We are screwed.

Sure it does. The billions who subsist on seafood will now have to eat eggs, pork, beef. This will cause supply issues of those things. If you're a vegetarian you might be safe, though those too will be in higher demand maybe. There's also water shortages, see the drought that's drying up the Mississippi river. Without water we'll have less and less crop yields. We slowly had changes happen over 3 decades, then all o…

> "billions who subsist on seafood will now have to eat eggs, pork, beef"

There is another possible outcome... :/

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#184
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm eating as much delicious sushi grade tuna I can before it's gone.

It's already full of plastic and mercury, so still might not be a great idea

> It's already full of plastic

So are you, and everybody else that has synthetic textiles in their house.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#185
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not that simple. The snow crab fishery is pretty highly regulated and considered to be sustainably harvested (by NOAA, the Monterey Bay Aquarium, others). As mentioned in an another article [1] from August on the recent disappearance, there were large numbers of juveniles in 2018 and 2019. Something else is going on. Overfishing certainly may play a role, but something else is likely the primary factor. 1. h…

Absolutely not an expert here and would love to be corrected but my poorly informed personal impression is that the whole idea of a sustainable amount of fishing and whether all species even have a number that is safe to harvest (especially given that no species exists in isolation), let alone what that number is, is on fairly shaky grounds scientifically. Meaning that a lot of this is guesswork based on too little i…

Thank you. The problem with a lot of the discussion around this topic is that most people are heavily biased as they derive great pleasure from consuming these animals, and so certain ideas and theories are ignored or under represented.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#186

How feasible is it to grow crabs in captivity? We need to start farming food, no way natural ecosystems can support themselves _and_ humans at current levels.

Interestingly, raising animals in captivity is much much more difficult than I imagined. IIRC - Guns, Germs, and Steel had a pretty good point that we didn't so much domesticate animals and plants as there were plants and animals that were pre-disposed to domestication.

Yeah for sure. Lion could well be 10x more delicious than beef for all I know, but I'm quite certain we couldn't farm millions of lions.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#187
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sea urchins are a problem everywhere in the pacific, and that's because their main predator (sea otters) were nearly wiped out.

I think it's just the western coast of North America that has this problem, rather than the entire Pacific. For example in New Zealand, which is in the Pacific, there were never any sea otters. Urchins, regarded locally as a delicacy, are not particularly abundant.

Crown-of-thorns starfish, on the other hand, are a very serious problem in Australia

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That mass wishful thinking is call “climate change denial”. We keep adding more and more evidence that climate change is happening. Even on a local scale we can all see significant changes in our local climate from year to year. The older among us can see this even more clearly if they chose. From what we know of the atmosphere there HAS to be heating from the rapid increase in CO2. You can stick your fingers in your…

Also the solutions being pushed kind of suck for most people. We’ve had 50 years of sustainability and eco-asceticism. Denial is a perfectly fine reaction to the solutions being proposed.

A dollar a gallon tax on gasoline would be more than enough to capture the CO2 it releases.

Other energy sources are similar.

These costs are way below what happens when some oil producer throws a tantrum or starts a war. However, unlike wars, etc., such a tax would directly cut into oil company profits.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#189
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that people en masse don’t actually care all that much about the cruelty of killing animals so long as it’s not reasonably torturous. The future, however dystopian you may see it, is sustainably growing the animals we want to eat for slaughter.

Which will likely involve not raising animals for slaughter at all, but rather things like Impossible/Beyond meats.

Impossible/beyond apparently have similar CO2 footprints as turkey.

On the other hand, we're in the middle of a turkey shortage due to bird flu.

Re: Alaska snow crab season canceled after disappearance of an estimated 1B crabs

#190
post #40
post #5

The overfished. Simple as that. Snow crabs have been becoming smaller and smaller because the biggest ones were not living that long anymore. It happened to cod fisheries in eastern Canada and it is happening everywhere until it's too late.

No, it's not that simple. The snow crab fishery is pretty highly regulated and considered to be sustainably harvested (by NOAA, the Monterey Bay Aquarium, others). As mentioned in an another article [1] from August on the recent disappearance, there were large numbers of juveniles in 2018 and 2019. Something else is going on. Overfishing certainly may play a role, but something else is likely the primary factor. 1. h…

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2021/10/09/alaska-snow-crab-...

Notice that this article is from 2021 for last year's catch.

"The 2021 fall harvest of Bristol Bay red king crab, another important source of revenue for that fleet, was canceled for this year because of too few females."

The collapse has been happening for years. This year it's just another species. Species by species it's going to collapse. Next will be shrimp and krill.

Don't be surprised when the salmon runs collapse too, because for 3 years now every single year has been a 90% decline.

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