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Ask HN: Is it still possible to live in a terminal?

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Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to live in a terminal?

#54

It doesn't work for business at all because if you want to do business you have to meet people where they are. You can't email a client and say, sorry, can you please send me that contract in a text file, I only have a terminal. Or, sorry, I can't use your web portal to access the data because it uses JavaScript. If you're not doing business, using the terminal works fine. Up until you have to deal with health insura…

> technologically retarded hellscape

The modern web seems pretty great to me. Why do you feel that way?

Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to live in a terminal?

#57
Until few years ago I was a hard-code unixer, witch means zsh+Vim, even if on X11, on modern terminal emulators like Terminator, Tilix etc. Then I've decided to seriously do a thing I've only superficially and never really studied before, after seeing it in action: try Emacs seriously.

In a little time EXWM have replaced my WM, Emacs have integrated a big slice of my previously favorite tools. It's not perfect, it have bugs/flaws, but is so much powerful than the Unix model and the modern GUI model(s) that outshine anything else. I still use zsh, eshell it's a bit too limited/alien to me so far, unix tools lacking a LispM underneath are still serving me under the wood but that's is.

Said that, as you rightly state the actual IT model, VERY unfortunately for the humanity at a whole and no, I'm really serious, have shifted long ago to classic desktop model toward a modern limited and limiting model and now even worse to the old mainframe+dumb terminals model, where the mainframe is external, someone else computer, the cloud and dumb terminals are now "endpoint", utterly complicated pile of crap to boot up a WebVM improperly named browser for legacy reasons. In the actual state of things choice is limited: some "services" can be integrated more or less easily, more or less stably/reliably, others can not.

That's why I've first shared my person journey toward Emacs: even if sit on top of Unix, like a bootloader, not much differently than the aforementioned WebVMs it can wrap Unix and integrate X11/WebVMs (cr)apps a little bit. Doing so does not totally solve your issues, BUT solve partially many of them and gives you something FAR more powerful/evolved than Unix. You can't do much more than that.

To use a truce metaphor: we live in a dramatically lost war, chances to win before dying are utopia at best, but at least we can live the unique life we got a bit armed instead of being totally at the mercy of every enemy. Your car if not today, tomorrow will demand you a login on a smartphone to a cloud service just to open the door, so your WC to lift the cover, your country will demand a smartphone just to pay taxes in an integrated cloud-mobile platform no one really know who really control at a certain "zoom" level, no one can really do anything outside it but you can so far still have a small personal garden that ease your life a bit at least giving a comfortable environment with your data locally available so much powerful that can help cope with the outside world crap.

BTW Slack, a CRAPPY service no damn company should be so crazy to choose it, is supported by some Emacs packages see for instance https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Slack as usual it's not a full and bug free support, but you can use it, like you can use Jira etc.

Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to live in a terminal?

#58
For Slack in particular, the deal is that new signins return a token that starts with "xoxc", not a token that starts with "xoxs", and that token requires corresponding cookies in order to be accepted. If you're grabbing a token out of the browser, you will also need to get cookies for slack.com and pass them in the client. Last I checked, you only strictly needed the cookie called "d", but you may as well grab all of them.

A bunch of folks who have been using Slack for a long time have saved their xoxs cookie from a couple of years ago and not invalidated their old sessions, and they'll tell you the various clients still work. For a new user who is getting an xoxc token, your client needs a way to pass cookies along with your token. Many of the terminal clients I've seen don't obviously give you a way to pass the cookie.

My company uses the enterprisiest Slack offering (Enterprise Grid, compliance archiving, proxy restrictions, the works) hooked up to Azure AD as the identity provider and previously to Okta via ADFS, and I have working programmatic auth to Slack (leveraging local Kerberos tickets from Windows AD signon). Give me some details on what your auth setup looks like and I can probably help you with it. (I can try to open-source my internal client if it helps, but it's specific in some ways to our setup so it might be easier to just talk you through it.)

Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to live in a terminal?

#59
post #50

It doesn't work for business at all because if you want to do business you have to meet people where they are. You can't email a client and say, sorry, can you please send me that contract in a text file, I only have a terminal. Or, sorry, I can't use your web portal to access the data because it uses JavaScript. If you're not doing business, using the terminal works fine. Up until you have to deal with health insura…

>Unfortunately the world now revolves around [gui] web browsers. We brought this technologically retarded hellscape on ourselves and we deserve it. This seems backwards. Limiting yourself to CLI tools do retard your abilities, modern GUI apps do not.

Sorry?

CLI respect of Emacs yes, is limited and limiting, but modern GUIs are FAR more limited and limiting. Can you integrate them? No. Let's say you want in a single view a set of mails, financial transactions, notes etc. You can arrange something in a CLI, you can do it in org-mode, you can't do it in the most advanced ERP monster.

Modern UIs try to go back to the original document UI concept but TOTALLY fails for the interactive part, they are mere view where you can touch some knobs someone else placed there for you, nothing more, and try to bend them is a nightmare.

Re: Ask HN: Is it still possible to live in a terminal?

#60
post #54

It doesn't work for business at all because if you want to do business you have to meet people where they are. You can't email a client and say, sorry, can you please send me that contract in a text file, I only have a terminal. Or, sorry, I can't use your web portal to access the data because it uses JavaScript. If you're not doing business, using the terminal works fine. Up until you have to deal with health insura…

> technologically retarded hellscape The modern web seems pretty great to me. Why do you feel that way?

You must have a very good ad blocker.
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