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Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

complang.tuwien.ac.at

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Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#191

Post by ccvannorman »

_greim_ wrote: post #190

It's interesting that the author would associate "frames, tables, and other fancy features" with a lack of interesting content. I assume tables are included because they were widely misused at the time, not because tabular data wasn't interesting. I have a button in my toolbar called "dammit" which strips away every iframe, embed, object, audio, and video from the page, multiple times per second. These are considered…

Can you share how this works / code snippet? Would love to add this to my "Fk the modern internet" toolset. (I also use TamperMonkey which injects client js when url patterns are matched, to get rid of annoying cookie modals.)

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#192

Post by bobbob1921 »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #19
badsectoracula wrote: post #13

Considering all the discussions about JavaScript and sites with primarily text requiring it, this looks like the more things change, the more they remain the same :-P. Also see Wirth's Plea for Lean Software[0] from 1995 for another "timeless" issue. I did find this bit interesting too... > Apart from this practical reason, there's a principal one: The first time I invoked Netscape, it said that it is obsolete and re…

Firefox on Ubuntu (which I'm not using anymore for these and other reasons) and presumably on other OSs does exactly that: refuse to open new tabs/sites once every two weeks or so, telling me "one more thing we need to do" ie self-update. So you're loosing all your browsing context, though FF does a better job restoring it after restart than it used to, but still that's user-hostile and self-important as fuck. And th…

This reminds me of iOS apps that as soon as you open them require an update to the latest version and won’t let you proceed any further (in the app) until you click OK/do the update. I always make it a point to go leave a one star review (or update my existing review to one star), and point this out as the reason

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#193

Post by 323 »

mrtksn wrote: post #20

So the "movement" against modern browser features is not a movement and has nothing to do with these features but its simply a version of "kids these days lost their ways" thinking. A version of conservatism, I guess. "Everything was better in the good old days" and "The new generation is horrible, the humanity is doomed" kind of thoughts are probably a manifestation of fading youth.

20 years from now there will be HN posts like "In my good old days we wrote efficient Electron apps that only used 2 GB of RAM to display a todo list, today's developers are lazy, there is no need to ask the AI to synthesize such a simple app, and certainly it shouldn't need a QPU (QuantumProcessorUnit) to run".

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#194

Post by incanus77 »

Unrelated to this content (I think), tuwien.ac.at is a domain I have not seen nor thought of in decades. I see that there’s new stuff there too, but does anyone recall why this might have been a well-known domain in the 90s? I feel like I used to regularly read some content or download software from there, probably UNIX stuff.

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#195

Post by cercatrova »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #19
badsectoracula wrote: post #13

Considering all the discussions about JavaScript and sites with primarily text requiring it, this looks like the more things change, the more they remain the same :-P. Also see Wirth's Plea for Lean Software[0] from 1995 for another "timeless" issue. I did find this bit interesting too... > Apart from this practical reason, there's a principal one: The first time I invoked Netscape, it said that it is obsolete and re…

Firefox on Ubuntu (which I'm not using anymore for these and other reasons) and presumably on other OSs does exactly that: refuse to open new tabs/sites once every two weeks or so, telling me "one more thing we need to do" ie self-update. So you're loosing all your browsing context, though FF does a better job restoring it after restart than it used to, but still that's user-hostile and self-important as fuck. And th…

> the Web is now 30 years old, past its peak, so if browsers still need to update bi-weekly for new features and experiments, this in combination with lack of browser diversity proves without any shade of doubt there's something very wrong with the incentives for browser development, the Google/Mozilla browser cartel, and the evolution of "web standards".

Or maybe new features are still coming out in the W3C specs and need to be implemented. Did you know CSS now has a parent selector, or that JS will be getting functional piping soon?

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#196

Post by dkarl »

olalonde wrote: post #78
dkarl wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And companies writing the software that average people use are motivated solely by "what the average Joe wants," where "what the average Joe wants" is defined by business metrics like "how much is Joe clicking" and "how much is Joe spending."

I assume you don't believe this is a good thing? How would you measure "what the average Joe wants"?

I don't assume it can be measured, and I think large organizations are stupid and morally shallow enough without letting them loose with the mandate to maximize a handful of simple metrics.

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#197

Post by mhd »

john61 wrote: post #75
martyvis wrote: post #61

Anton didn't like PDF either :- https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/why-not-pdf.html

And he is correct that pages and fixed layout do not make sense for electronic media even if printed.

Yeah, getting the most use out of your paper (or picking said size in the first place) was a time-honored tradition of print typography. And sure, not 1:1 applicable to the screen.

I do think that the screen typography department has been seriously lacking here, though. Scrolling a single column can't really be the end of wisdom.

But the main problem we've got is that the ad people took care of on-screen typography once we progress far enough that screen sizes and resolutions actually would've made more things possible. Not the tradition of typography that made newspapers, books etc., but the flyer and full-page-ad demographic. PageMaker, not FrameMaker.

Browsers barely have the tools to make reading effective and enjoyable. CSS is oriented towards other purposes, and the browsers themselves only have the bare necessities – practically hidden "user stylesheets" or the one-size-fits-all "reader mode".

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#199

Post by Ensorceled »

naasking wrote: post #179
Ensorceled wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I've encountered this quite few times, especially as a consultant; "We won't turn away ANYONE!!!" Edit: Ok, now I'm laughing the idea of having a reserved parking spot for trucks hauling giant windmill blades.

Well, maybe that parking lot example will help you in the future to explain why this is a dumb approach. Expanding the customer base has its own costs, so you obviously want to target some point of optimal return (revenue from customer - cost to support customer), otherwise you're just shooting yourself in the foot.

yeah ... I'm noting this analogy for future discussions.

Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)

#200

Post by romland »

incanus77 wrote: post #194

Unrelated to this content (I think), tuwien.ac.at is a domain I have not seen nor thought of in decades. I see that there’s new stuff there too, but does anyone recall why this might have been a well-known domain in the 90s? I feel like I used to regularly read some content or download software from there, probably UNIX stuff.

I had the _exact_ same feeling; when I read your comment I started googling a bit but I came up short. In my case it should probably have been one or some of: MUDs, Linux, Debian, Amiga, shareware, usenet, IRC.
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