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Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

tvpworld.com

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Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#81

Post by johnebgd »

CodeSgt wrote: post #60
lesuorac wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alex Jones isn't the story you think it is. There are procedures to follow in a lawsuit such as discovery. If you intentionally do not follow them then you get in trouble. He may have been able to muster a "I only said things"/ free speech defense if he actually was trying to defend himself in court. Instead he didn't participate in the lawsuit and the other party that did is assumed to be correct. > [1] In both the…

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure if I see how this changes the fundamental nature of the lawsuit. "Spreading disinformation", whether you profit from it or not, is really just "Speaking your incorrect opinion out loud" in a more negative light. The basis of the lawsuit was "This man said things that made me upset". And yeah, they were rightfully upset, but it's something that I think any court in a count…

Libel and defamation are forms of disinformation and have long been held to have civil repercussions. This case against Alex Jones is an extension of that IMHO.

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#82

Post by soheil »

> The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.

- The argument against Free Speech and shouting fire in a crowded theater.

Is this Turkey's justification too?

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#83

Post by CodeSgt »

root_axis wrote: post #80
CodeSgt wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure if I see how this changes the fundamental nature of the lawsuit. "Spreading disinformation", whether you profit from it or not, is really just "Speaking your incorrect opinion out loud" in a more negative light. The basis of the lawsuit was "This man said things that made me upset". And yeah, they were rightfully upset, but it's something that I think any court in a count…

If a famous person spreads lies about my murdered kids for profit which results in years of harassment and death threats it's not simply "spreading disinformation".

That's quite literally all that it is. Maybe you dont like it, I dont like it either, but Alex Jones's part in this was just speaking. The individuals doing the harassment and making death threats should of course be punished. But holding someone accountable for the actions of hundreds of people they've never met is absurd. Did Alex Jones encourage the harassment? Did he tell his followers to go send death threats? If he did, I've certainly not seen it. And if he did, it would be a slightly different story. But speaking your incorrect opinion should not make you liable for the actions of a few deranged individuals who choose to act on that information in a negative way.

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#84

Post by sethammons »

Ekaros wrote: post #17
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #4

Hold on.. not false statements, not defamation, not calls for violence… but “disinformation.” Except that we find out that many things were disinformation every day. My family is increasingly paranoid after the Pfizer executive said they never tested whether their vaccine prevented transmission to the EU a few days ago. Apparently that is not new information technically speaking, but it is so counter-narrative it bog…

I hope we will jail and permanently ban anyone who spread these lies about vaccines from social media and any public office. It is least we can do to fight against their crimes and the evil they did. As society we can't let these monsters go without consequences.

Should we jail those with early calls for masking? What about that Copernicus guy and his earth-is-not-the-center-of-the-universe heretical spew?

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#85

Post by lesuorac »

CodeSgt wrote: post #60
lesuorac wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alex Jones isn't the story you think it is. There are procedures to follow in a lawsuit such as discovery. If you intentionally do not follow them then you get in trouble. He may have been able to muster a "I only said things"/ free speech defense if he actually was trying to defend himself in court. Instead he didn't participate in the lawsuit and the other party that did is assumed to be correct. > [1] In both the…

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure if I see how this changes the fundamental nature of the lawsuit. "Spreading disinformation", whether you profit from it or not, is really just "Speaking your incorrect opinion out loud" in a more negative light. The basis of the lawsuit was "This man said things that made me upset". And yeah, they were rightfully upset, but it's something that I think any court in a count…

The basis of the lawsuit was defamation which is different than spreading disinformation.

A lot of the legal documents can be found here [1] but I already know you aren't going to both yourself with the specifics of the case.

The short version is, if somebody sues you, you need to go through the legal motions otherwise you lose by default and then their side is considered factual when determining damages regardless of if it actually was. My personal opinion is that he knew he'd lose under Texas's defamation law and so decided the optics looked better not to fight.

[1]: https://infowarslawsuit.com/

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#87

Post by CodeSgt »

johnebgd wrote: post #81
CodeSgt wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure if I see how this changes the fundamental nature of the lawsuit. "Spreading disinformation", whether you profit from it or not, is really just "Speaking your incorrect opinion out loud" in a more negative light. The basis of the lawsuit was "This man said things that made me upset". And yeah, they were rightfully upset, but it's something that I think any court in a count…

Libel and defamation are forms of disinformation and have long been held to have civil repercussions. This case against Alex Jones is an extension of that IMHO.

I'm not a lawyer so I could be wrong, but aren't those cases only held up and prosecuted when the victim(s) suffered real financial damages? E.g. lost their job, company went under, etc.

I have yet to see what tangible damages Alex Jones caused the parents of the Sandy Hook incident. Emotional damages to be sure, but I don't believe fining someone because they hurt another's feelings is a good precedent to set.

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#88

Post by BuyMyBitcoins »

rlpb wrote: post #71
BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole situation with Alex Jones has undermined the confidence I have with our court system and our government. Initially I thought there was some Mandela Effect going on because I could have sworn I remembered Alex Jones losing a Sandy Hook civil suit case multiple times before. Turns out, he’s being sued multiple times by different sets of parents and from what I understand, this latest case isn’t the last one.…

> Firstly, because this is a civil matter and not a criminal one, there is no protection against double jeopardy. He can keep getting sued over and over for the same thing. Not by the same people, though. If he damaged ten people, he might owe damages to each of those ten people. That doesn't sound like a problem to me. > Second, fining someone a billion dollars is just ludicrous. It seems like your argument is that…

As for your first point, I suspect the parents and their attorneys have decided to split the lawsuits up strategically. I do not know how civil suit reform could address something like this.

As for your second point, it is indeed true that I don’t think Alex Jones caused a billion dollars worth of damage.

I simply cannot envision the specifics of this case warranting a billion dollars of restitution. If this was a case about an environmental disaster it wouldn’t be an unreasonable sum. So, I’m not advocating for a hard cap on damages for all civil suits. But something does seem wrong when a judge can arrive at such an outlandishly large sum for punitive damages in a case like this.

Edit: Alex Jones caused harm to the parents and their families, but even convicted murderers are not ordered to pay such large sums of restitution. And that’s direct incontrovertible harm.

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#89

Post by lesuorac »

CodeSgt wrote: post #83
root_axis wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a famous person spreads lies about my murdered kids for profit which results in years of harassment and death threats it's not simply "spreading disinformation".

That's quite literally all that it is. Maybe you dont like it, I dont like it either, but Alex Jones's part in this was just speaking. The individuals doing the harassment and making death threats should of course be punished. But holding someone accountable for the actions of hundreds of people they've never met is absurd. Did Alex Jones encourage the harassment? Did he tell his followers to go send death threats? I…

> [1] Defendants’ latest malicious statements were part of a continuous pattern of five years of intentional and reckless harassment accomplished through dozens of disturbing video broadcasts, a relentless stream of recklessly false articles published on InfoWars.com, harassing social media content, as well as the encouragement, aid, and financial support to third-parties in furthering this 23 harassment.

The lawsuit literally claims they (Alex Jones) encouraged the harassment.

[1]: https://infowarslawsuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/2018-...

Re: Turkey adopts media law jailing for spreading ‘disinformation’

#90

Post by Ambolia »

rayiner wrote: post #47

Think about the power you want the government to have. And then imagine what your political opponents will do with it the next time they win the election.

That's not the kind of countries we live in anymore. Most people think that thanks to laws like this, they will be able to keep their opponents out of power forever.
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