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Cloud services like AWS or Google Cloud Platform may be the wrong choice

karlsutt.com

121–130 of 210 posts

Re: Cloud services like AWS or Google Cloud Platform may be the wrong choice

#121
Holy oversimplification, Batman.

If you hire people who don't know how the cloud works, then of course their time will be sucked up by learning how it works. If you hire people who know how the cloud works, it is a productivity multiplier. Use the tools that you know.

BUT. If you have to build a giant wooden sailing ship, and all you know how to use is a Swiss army knife... and you want to get that ship done this century..... you need to learn new tools.

Re: Cloud services like AWS or Google Cloud Platform may be the wrong choice

#122
post #12

I don't know. Maybe I'm in a bubble, but it seems to me that knowing the basics of AWS (or some cloud provider) has become part of the standard developer's toolkit. With AWS specifically, there's so much documentation out there about getting started that I think you can have something up in a day or two on something like ECS or lambda (using something like the Serverless framework). And then when you need the more co…

> but it seems to me that knowing the basics of AWS (or some cloud provider) has become part of the standard developer's toolkit. This seems to be flirting with the idea that Amazon has become a required component of hosting an application on the internet.

Required? No, I'm not saying that. But yes, it's become the industry standard. If you don't know some AWS basics and you are a generalist web developer, you'd probably do well to learn them in order to make yourself a more marketable engineer.

There are plenty of good alternatives, but AWS is the 800-pound gorilla. You have to know at least a little bit about it in order to know why not to use it.

It's like saying you don't want to use React/Angular/Vue for your web app. There are good reasons not to, but at this point you should at least have some experience with web frameworks before making a technical decision not to use them. If your answer is "I don't know them and I don't want to learn them", that's fine for a personal project, but probably not a reason not to use them at your full-time startup. If your reason is "I know React, but for my specific use case, vanilla HTML/CSS/JS is better" then you are making a more informed decision.

Re: Cloud services like AWS or Google Cloud Platform may be the wrong choice

#123

> It costs how much?! The author's not wrong. Cost comes with lack of accountability in my experience. In turn, my devsecops dept (~20 people) has kept costs down by holding monthly AWS accountability meetings. "Who owns this and why does it exist?" is the leading question. > The all-you-can-eat buffet problem Valid point. But I've gotten far in my career by specializing in AWS. It's not going anywhere soon. It's the…

> GCP? Come on. What's wrong with GCP?

The G. Products from Google are often transient, support is often non-existent. It doesn't create confidence for people who might be investing big into proprietary cloud features.

Re: Cloud services like AWS or Google Cloud Platform may be the wrong choice

#124
post #43
post #12

I don't know. Maybe I'm in a bubble, but it seems to me that knowing the basics of AWS (or some cloud provider) has become part of the standard developer's toolkit. With AWS specifically, there's so much documentation out there about getting started that I think you can have something up in a day or two on something like ECS or lambda (using something like the Serverless framework). And then when you need the more co…

The problem with even lambda or ECS though is that it’s all much more complex than a simple rsync to your desired server.

With Fargate or Google Cloud Run, it really isn't. Assuming zero knowledge it's probably easier to learn how to build a docker container and call a binary to send it to the service than it is to setup ssh and rsync and a server to host your website.

Re: Cloud services like AWS or Google Cloud Platform may be the wrong choice

#125

This article is written in kind of a controversial way but it seems like the throughline of the argument is something like "use heroku until you have 100k users". This seems very reasonable to me. I thought it was going to be a pitch for on prem, which is also fine for certain scales. I think generally the scaling steps from startup to megacorp go: Heroku/Dokku > Public Cloud >Dedicated servers in someone else's DC >…

> "use heroku until you have 100k users" Thing is that for most/many startups 100k users is not a lot. Rejiggling your basic infra just as your growth is starting to accelerate is a non-trivial task, a risk, and something that doesn't fundamentally move the needle.

Most B2B startups never get anywhere near 100K users.

Re: Cloud services like AWS or Google Cloud Platform may be the wrong choice

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you're spending less than 2$ per month how much traffic -> how much money can you make? Sure, I also have plenty of static websites hosted for free by vercel / netlify / heroku / yourpick and even free functions. As soon as you start hitting traffic, functions start to cost a lot vs your own vps. My ideal setup right now is free static hosting from the marketing budget of friendly saas, free cloudflare on top and…

Google Cloud Run pricing is: - 2 million requests/mo free - First 180,000 vCPU seconds free - First 360,000 GiB seconds free Then: - $0.000024 /vCPU seconds - $0.0000025 /GiB seconds - $0.40 per million requests This will get you pretty far for $2/mo. Within the free tier itself, assuming you can process each request in 250ms on a 1 vCPU container, you get 720,000 requests before you start paying for compute usage. E…

The thing that holds me back from Google cloud run Is that it is difficult to replicate that exact environment locally for testing and dev. If you’re working with stateless apps then that’s fine, But what is the typical local workflow of developing against a database, task Queue, etc.?

Re: Cloud services like AWS or Google Cloud Platform may be the wrong choice

#127

This article is written in kind of a controversial way but it seems like the throughline of the argument is something like "use heroku until you have 100k users". This seems very reasonable to me. I thought it was going to be a pitch for on prem, which is also fine for certain scales. I think generally the scaling steps from startup to megacorp go: Heroku/Dokku > Public Cloud >Dedicated servers in someone else's DC >…

I would recommend starting with DigitalOcean. It may have little overhead but a much more cost effective and you can stay on it for longer before migrating.

Re: Cloud services like AWS or Google Cloud Platform may be the wrong choice

#129
post #45

This article is written in kind of a controversial way but it seems like the throughline of the argument is something like "use heroku until you have 100k users". This seems very reasonable to me. I thought it was going to be a pitch for on prem, which is also fine for certain scales. I think generally the scaling steps from startup to megacorp go: Heroku/Dokku > Public Cloud >Dedicated servers in someone else's DC >…

I really agree with you, what's weird though is how many mega-corps are going away from Custom Hardware in Custom Built DC towards Cloud. There's also something to be said for buying a VPS or a Colo machine, making sure it's backed up and dealing with the 9's that you get from that machine on it's own. I am routinely surprised by how far a single node machine will get you.

Every internal it department was always slower than any cloud offering.

Or laged features.

Or had underlying infra issues.

With AWS in one Startup I was able to build and maintain infrastructure were you needed a small team just 10 years before.

Re: Cloud services like AWS or Google Cloud Platform may be the wrong choice

#130
Don't use AWS, GCP or Azure. Use Digital Ocean and the likes. Cheap VM compute, managed databases. And for the most effective setup, just get an affordable VM and chuck https://dokku.com/ onto it. Boom you have your self hosted Heroku. Cheap bandwidth, opportunity to scale.

AWS is a fools errand at the startup level unless you need some of their specialised services. Stick to "tier 2" cloud providers like Digital Ocean or Linode. If all you need is servers, database and storage, then don't waste your money on the major cloud providers. They are the wrong choice for basic compute.

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