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Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)
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Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree. Using AJAX to hit internal APIs to load or update content improves performance of the site, and can make it easier to maintain.
I disagree. Using AJAX to hit internal APIs to load or update content improves performance of the site, and can make it easier to maintain. The reality is, with node junk, the average site uses 10mb of js, taking 5s to render, to show 1kb of text. Get rid of that 10mb of js, all those fonts, and you don't need to update only part of a page. It will load and render in 10ms.
Not every site uses "node junk" or even jQuery.
Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)
#23I was at a startup from 2000-2003 where the chief scientist was a security wonk and demanded that our product worked with and without JavaScript enabled. No wonder the startup failed. Imagine trying to make a useful product with one hand tied behind your back!
2000-2003 was a very different time, and people making javascript heavy sites then tended to be terrible. If I remember right gmail worked fine without javascript even after that time period.
With that attitude you likely were writing for IE5/6 only too. We're still dealing with the fallout from that 20 years later.
Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)
#24Considering all the discussions about JavaScript and sites with primarily text requiring it, this looks like the more things change, the more they remain the same :-P. Also see Wirth's Plea for Lean Software[0] from 1995 for another "timeless" issue. I did find this bit interesting too... > Apart from this practical reason, there's a principal one: The first time I invoked Netscape, it said that it is obsolete and re…
Firefox on Ubuntu (which I'm not using anymore for these and other reasons) and presumably on other OSs does exactly that: refuse to open new tabs/sites once every two weeks or so, telling me "one more thing we need to do" ie self-update. So you're loosing all your browsing context, though FF does a better job restoring it after restart than it used to, but still that's user-hostile and self-important as fuck. And th…
Go to Firefox settings and disable auto-update? `about:config` > `app.update.auto: false`
Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)
#25My modern version of this is browsing with JavaScript disabled. Most of the sites that don’t work weren’t worth my time anyway.
I disagree. Using AJAX to hit internal APIs to load or update content improves performance of the site, and can make it easier to maintain.
This is what Twitter does. It's possibly the least performant major website I've used.
Conditional loading certainly can improve perf. in theory. I've yet to see any evidence it does so in practice. The aggregate of bundle-size, bundle-parse, client-side execution resource-usage & added latency of the plethora of metadata normally bundled with API responses is more than enough to negate any actual perf. gains.
As for "easier to maintain", I've never seen anyone even try to make that argument in theory, nevermind practice. Pretty sure it's widely accepted even by advocates of this architecture that it's a trade-off of perf. gains for ease-of-maintenance losses.
Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)
#26I was at a startup from 2000-2003 where the chief scientist was a security wonk and demanded that our product worked with and without JavaScript enabled. No wonder the startup failed. Imagine trying to make a useful product with one hand tied behind your back!
I worked for a company that had one user complain about the site requiring JavaScript, because he didn't "trust" us. Manager asked him why he trusted us to create an account on the site.
Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)
#27Side note, the links took me to the Delorie page and DJGPP. That was a blast from the past.
Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree. Using AJAX to hit internal APIs to load or update content improves performance of the site, and can make it easier to maintain. The reality is, with node junk, the average site uses 10mb of js, taking 5s to render, to show 1kb of text. Get rid of that 10mb of js, all those fonts, and you don't need to update only part of a page. It will load and render in 10ms.
Not every site uses "node junk" or even jQuery.
That’s why parent said “the average site” and not “every site”.
Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Firefox on Ubuntu (which I'm not using anymore for these and other reasons) and presumably on other OSs does exactly that: refuse to open new tabs/sites once every two weeks or so, telling me "one more thing we need to do" ie self-update. So you're loosing all your browsing context, though FF does a better job restoring it after restart than it used to, but still that's user-hostile and self-important as fuck. And th…
Go to Firefox settings and disable auto-update? `about:config` > `app.update.auto: false`
And after some time it will not render pages.
Modern SW is such a mess.
Re: Why I Don't Use Netscape (1999)
#30Considering all the discussions about JavaScript and sites with primarily text requiring it, this looks like the more things change, the more they remain the same :-P. Also see Wirth's Plea for Lean Software[0] from 1995 for another "timeless" issue. I did find this bit interesting too... > Apart from this practical reason, there's a principal one: The first time I invoked Netscape, it said that it is obsolete and re…
Firefox on Ubuntu (which I'm not using anymore for these and other reasons) and presumably on other OSs does exactly that: refuse to open new tabs/sites once every two weeks or so, telling me "one more thing we need to do" ie self-update. So you're loosing all your browsing context, though FF does a better job restoring it after restart than it used to, but still that's user-hostile and self-important as fuck. And th…
Yeah that is annoying, though personally i find browsers as the one category of software where i think this is fine, mainly because of security updates (it sucks that they tend to come with UI updates but at least on Firefox so far the main UI is fairly customizable and have made my own) but also because they are online software anyway.