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How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

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Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#291
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if it sounds convoluted, but just trying to convey the actual rationale for the GDP equation (which is ignored or forgotten in most media reports). You understand GDP (It's not adding up all the things that were made, it's measuring the value an economy produced.). Imports clearly don't count as value an economy produced, and should not be in GDP. But if I import something, that increases GDP (spending is posit…

Yeah ok so here you go. Philosophically, GDP is an useful economic metric because it proxies economic activity and in your framework, economic activity is up , we are just paying for it via trade imbalance, which great, I love that foreigners will trade us goods/services for debt/assets. Hard to call that a recession (which again is why the 2 quarters thing is dumb). So circling back around to "my original point was…

Dude, you have it 100% backwards, going all the way back to your first point. I feel like you aren't reading, aren't understanding, or something (d.k.?).

in your framework, economic activity is up, we are just paying for it via trade imbalance

Wrong, I don't have a framework. I am just trying to explain to you how GDP is calculated. Economic activity is down when measured used GDP.

Your original post misunderstands GDP. I am not being pedantic, it is just incorrect:

Ok, let's play your game. How much of the first quarter decline was due to the ports clearing and imports rising? Here, I'll give you a hint (More than 100%)

Wrong, None of the decline was due to increased imports, because by the definition of GDP, imports are excluded. To quote the fed from the link above, "imports do not add to or subtract from GDP."

You agree that, in aggregate, the amount of consumption/investment/government spend are up, right? GDP has only declined because we didn't make all of it, which, sure, maybe a long-term problem, but irrelevant to a recession.

Wrong, GDP declined because domestic spending and/or investment and/or exports declined. Nothing to do with imports at all. Imports are not included in GDP, ergo, imports can't cause a decline in GDP.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#292
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economy is shrinking because boomers are retiring at a rate faster than we can fill jobs. The Boomer economists at the Fed have responded by raising interest rates so that Xers, Millennials, and Zoomers don't get uppity and ask for more money.

Really? I thought it was high inflation triggering consumers into savings mode. And monetary tightening destroying investments.

The Fed has been pushing ultra-low interest rates for a long time, which has gotten businesses to borrow tons of money and expand in ways that they never could have done organically. At the same time, the combination of COVID and the supply chain shortage caused prices to spike. Unemployment is near an all-time low: easy money has made it easy to expand companies. Companies have decided to fight against lowering their prices tooth and nail regardless of how much less it now costs to ship product. At the same time, boomers are cycling out of the job market and none of the subsequent generations have enough population to replace them all.

Remember the press releases that stated that Biden intended to hire 80K new IRS workers over the next 10 years? The IRS is predicted to lose 50K workers over the next 5 years due to retirements.

Most companies have refused to invest in employees and refuse to have sensible plans to reward employees for their allegiance. The easiest and most painless way for most employees to get the pay raise they deserve is to find another job. Most employees realize that they have options and are willing to take the right job rather than the first job.

And since spending habits usually don't change if you're making more money, most people have more money to spend and companies are willing to get their piece of that pie. Combine that with OPEC cutting production and the war in Ukraine, and we've now got relatively high inflation. The inflation is real. The fed rate hikes are artificial. We've needed a serious upward adjustment in wages for quite some time, at least until people stop pretending that government is the root of all evil and there's a place for a conversation about how much housing costs.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#293
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tell people that you are looking for _one_ position, not 10,000. There will always be a position somewhere that fits your needs. Its more difficult in down times to a degree. And if your industry is in a huge slump, find a new industry! There's more work to do than can ever be done.

I wish that was the case, but my experience is that there are fewer PHP jobs. Switching a stack won't help cos places want years of experience.

My company recently gave up on acquiring another company, mainly because their backend is written in PHP. Not that there is anything wrong with PHP, but we deemed it too expensive to expand the team, because there are a few big companies that snap up all the good PHP developers in my area and we couldn't match the salary.

There are plenty of legacy systems that people need to maintain, no matter what the tech stack is. As others say, network, network and network some more...

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#294
post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's real GDP. I'm saying this number is noisier when inflation is high because you only ever measure nominal GDP and then deflate.

Well what don't you believe because you're using 6.6% inflation as your reason for skepticism, but that's what GDP is deflated by?

They believe the error bar on that inflation number must be pretty wide, presumably.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#295
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, same as the value of a plumber, electrician or architect. Difference there is there isn't a supply/demand imbalance of labor in those jobs. And there soon won't be one in engineering either

Have you tried to call an electrician or plumber recently? Assuming you can even get one on the phone, they can basically name their price for any job.

Especially in Silicon Valley.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#297
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen this at all, I'm currently contracting and I see rates anywhere from 63.50 per hour to 80+. Depending on the locale and whether we're talking FAANG or not those are pretty good rates. (130-150+ respectively)

$150 per hour is very low.

150/hr would be great in europe, and companies do pay it, not to individual contractors, but to other companies

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#298
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah ok so here you go. Philosophically, GDP is an useful economic metric because it proxies economic activity and in your framework, economic activity is up , we are just paying for it via trade imbalance, which great, I love that foreigners will trade us goods/services for debt/assets. Hard to call that a recession (which again is why the 2 quarters thing is dumb). So circling back around to "my original point was…

Dude, you have it 100% backwards, going all the way back to your first point. I feel like you aren't reading, aren't understanding, or something (d.k.?). in your framework, economic activity is up, we are just paying for it via trade imbalance Wrong, I don't have a framework. I am just trying to explain to you how GDP is calculated. Economic activity is down when measured used GDP. Your original post misunderstands G…

Bro, what you are not understanding is that equating a recession to a decrease in production is pointless. It’s why you won’t answer my C+I+G question.

What is happening is that Americans are selling debt/assets in exchange for goods/services (that’s what a trade imbalance is). They are still able to consume and invest an increasing amount of goods/services and there’s no signs of that ability to finance those activities via trade imbalance decreasing any time soon. In fact, the reason GDP went down without C+I+G going down is that they did more of it than ever before!

So keep calling me D-K but you have no idea what GDP even represents (production is not the economy my guy, trade imbalances have an impact).

Like you get that assets/capital formation aren’t in GDP but you can still sell them, right?

And that’s why

> Wrong, GDP declined because domestic spending and/or investment and/or exports declined.

Is incorrect.

None of those things declined, we just financed them with a trade imbalance (instead of production) which is why you should google FDI

EDIT: Lets just put this to rest and answer me this question. Imagine a world where tomorrow, China is willing to sell America everything it wants in exchange for shares of BigCo. (To be clear, the flow is dollars used to purchase RMB, RMB used to purchase goods/services, RMB used to purchase dollars, dollars used to purchase shares of BigCo.)

America takes them up on this deal and increases consumption by 5x overnight. Given that America is importing all its goods/services, it has a GDP of zero, a 100% decline.

Is that a good measure of an economy increasing its consumption of goods/services from $20tn to $100tn, or is the trade imbalance hiding something important there?

Which again, my original point: sure GDP is down, but that reflects trade financing more than it does economic activity (whereas you seem to have this weird fixation of in-quarter production being the only source of value creation in an economy, which lol D-K)

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#299

We (large FANGish) are more or less in a hiring freeze but still grabbing a few new hires here and there. A friend just interviewed for SSE at AAPL and seemed to have the job only to be told they closed the req. I'm still getting lots of recruiter spam though so I think we're still fairly early in any sort of layoff cycle. The economy is still trucking. Despite many people trying to be first to declare it, we're not…

I'm seeing a massive uptick in recruiting for contract roles compared to a year ago though. A year ago (and even, 3-4 months ago) it was all full time positions nearly exclusively, now it's all heavily weighted toward contract Lots of "18+ month" or "long term" contract verbiage, but contract none the less. Definitely a shift. Seeing more contract to hire too

Or the recruiters are working extra hard to avoid layoffs

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#300
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philosophically, GDP is an useful economic metric because it proxies economic activity and in theirframework, economic activity is up, we are just paying for it via trade imbalance, which great, I love that foreigners will trade us goods for debt/assets. Hard to call that a recession (which again is why the 2 quarters thing is dumb).

You just can't give it a rest can you? You're in total denial of the reality that many people including experts and journalists use the GDP 2 quarters definition, entirely because you are blinded by politics. You didn't even understand how GDP was calculated and had to have the parent poster kindly and simply explain it to you, and instead of being grateful and learning something you've sunk to "it's dumb lol".

I think i ended our conversation with “agree to disagree” then you came over here.

So yeah you’re right I can’t give it a rest.

But I don’t know why citing BEA releases is considered politics.

Like I get it, you don’t like Biden, neither do I!

But it’s just so weird that people want to pin this fake recession on him, when in reality they should pin other real shit he did like the crypto bubble from stimulus payments or the inflation that followed.

My problem with you isn’t your politics. My problem is that you’re hungry for an easy answer to the detriment of accuracy.

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