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How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

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Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#171

Post by wobbly_bush »

adam_arthur wrote: post #96
dilyevsky wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary view - this will sprout more startups that were previously starved for talent rest&vesting at faang&co and we'll see much tighter market in 2-3 years.

It will definitely do that if FAANG comp compresses via lower equity issuances. The difference is startups generally can’t compensate at the level that FAANGs do or did. And if discount rate stays higher, valuations will be much lower at the same revenue and growth rates than they had been in the past. Of course this also implies the value of the dollars you earn is greater via opportunity of higher yielding investme…

There are also plenty of people unhappy with their FAANG jobs and don't want to trade it for a growth-chasing but ultimately unfulfilling startup. Those might be tempted to join a more robust startup.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#172

Post by xapata »

kingnothing wrote: post #38
01100011 wrote: post #35

We (large FANGish) are more or less in a hiring freeze but still grabbing a few new hires here and there. A friend just interviewed for SSE at AAPL and seemed to have the job only to be told they closed the req. I'm still getting lots of recruiter spam though so I think we're still fairly early in any sort of layoff cycle. The economy is still trucking. Despite many people trying to be first to declare it, we're not…

The US is in a recession. It has seen two quarters of negative economic growth.

Has it? I remember hearing that unemployment is still going down.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#173

Post by adam_arthur »

davewritescode wrote: post #133
adam_arthur wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, same as the value of a plumber, electrician or architect. Difference there is there isn't a supply/demand imbalance of labor in those jobs. And there soon won't be one in engineering either

That’s a very hard prediction to make. The most expensive part of software is maintenance and it’s not decreasing over time.

Of course it's decreasing. The amount of people required to maintain an application of a given size continues to drop significantly over time.

Something like Docusign, once built out, could be maintained by a handful of people using serverless components. Same thing with Twitter and pretty much every other application.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#174

Post by tomrod »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #147
tomrod wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economists don't favor democrats but rather seek reality, and the argument that conservative viewpoints are somehow not present in universities, especially in economics departments where Marxists econ profs and Austrian econ profs dine at the same tables and chair the same candidates, is both hilarious to people who have lived experience there and somewhat sad for those same because to communicate reality to folks es…

How dare you accuse a marxist economist of seeking reality.

Right? The umbrage! Yet, I cannot deny their existence no more than I can deny that Linux is a superior operating system due to its open nature.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#175

Post by crackercrews »

humanwhosits wrote: post #76
no_wizard wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seeing a massive uptick in recruiting for contract roles compared to a year ago though. A year ago (and even, 3-4 months ago) it was all full time positions nearly exclusively, now it's all heavily weighted toward contract Lots of "18+ month" or "long term" contract verbiage, but contract none the less. Definitely a shift. Seeing more contract to hire too

I guess hiring for contracts routes around arbitrary headcount limits.

Also lets you trim headcount without announcing layoffs, down the line.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#176

Post by adam_arthur »

yieldcrv wrote: post #138
adam_arthur wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will definitely do that if FAANG comp compresses via lower equity issuances. The difference is startups generally can’t compensate at the level that FAANGs do or did. And if discount rate stays higher, valuations will be much lower at the same revenue and growth rates than they had been in the past. Of course this also implies the value of the dollars you earn is greater via opportunity of higher yielding investme…

small crypto startups compete directly with faang because they can give their own liquid tokens alongside their base salary given how big the VC funds for crypto startups are now I dont really see any talent acquisition situation improving for other tech startups, I see it getting more impossible who wants below market salary and illiquid lottery tickets that you have to also put up your own money to redeem after 1 t…

Nobody is going to work for Crypto startups now that the whole sector has imploded. And likely will go even lower from here. The days of profiting off ponzi scheme-esque tokens is over

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#177

Post by didibus »

RC_ITR wrote: post #41
kingnothing wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is in a recession. It has seen two quarters of negative economic growth.

I feel like a broken record but, the 'Two quarters' rule is an unofficial metric that does a bad job of representing recessions when you back-test it (no recessions from 1992-2008 in that case). In the US, a recession is defined by NBER after the fact.

I feel like non-officially most people think of a recession simply in terms of like are less and less people able to make ends meet and less and less able to afford the same luxuries as they did before.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#178

Post by hanszarkov »

lumost wrote: post #4
thwayunion wrote: post #2

The market is still extremely tight for good talent in-between Senior and Junior.

So the Senior market is saturated? this is an early sign companies are getting nervous about bloat. After the '08 recession many companies rushed to ditch Architect titles as they found that the role did not serve the interests of their productive engineers or the companies higher ups. Companies that had gone heavy on such talent might find themselves stuck. I recall seeing talks on "Staff Engineer" and thinking that…

I'm a software architect, I write code every day, I design every day, I write documents every day, and I report to the VP and CTO every day.

I have met other architects that claim they "don't code" and honesty don't understand how they can make decisions and reduce risk without that background. Most of the time I have a solution because I've been there and done that.

I view my role as one that has the expertise to bring the engineering team to the next level, because if I did all the work - it would just be one person instead of many. I constantly try to unblock, solve hard problems, and reduce entropy - and let the creativity flow to the rest of the team.

This has worked for me, as a software architect, for almost a decade.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#179

Post by dilyevsky »

yieldcrv wrote: post #138
adam_arthur wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will definitely do that if FAANG comp compresses via lower equity issuances. The difference is startups generally can’t compensate at the level that FAANGs do or did. And if discount rate stays higher, valuations will be much lower at the same revenue and growth rates than they had been in the past. Of course this also implies the value of the dollars you earn is greater via opportunity of higher yielding investme…

small crypto startups compete directly with faang because they can give their own liquid tokens alongside their base salary given how big the VC funds for crypto startups are now I dont really see any talent acquisition situation improving for other tech startups, I see it getting more impossible who wants below market salary and illiquid lottery tickets that you have to also put up your own money to redeem after 1 t…

they aint liquid until they vest and by the time they vest you'd be lucky to have a job so no - nobody in their right mind would go with small crypto startup now

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#180

Post by fernandotakai »

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #142
yulaow wrote: post #22

Here in Europe layoffs are more uncommon but I am having a very hard time finding open positions compared to just 3 years ago ( last time I was changing jobs ), and the situation is getting worse and worse each week that passes. And for juniors is already far worse: I very rarely see job openings targeted to them anymore. It seems like everything is frozen.

I'm not seeing this at all. Hiring is pretty hot still and wages have increased fiercely. Recruiters are still a plenty too.

yeah, agreed. i got a really good offer from an european company, with relocation included.
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