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How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

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Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#151

Post by daveevad »

mywittyname wrote: post #62
the_lonely_road wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pointless battle. There is a US election this year so there is zero chance a recession will be admitted until mid November regardless of facts on the ground.

Data for Q3 will be released on Oct 27 (before the election). And current estimates for ~2.0% growth. Thus, the country will technically be "out of a recession" by election time. I wonder if these people claiming that we are "technically in a recession" will suddenly start saying that economy has recovered come Oct 28.

> I wonder if these people claiming that we are "technically in a recession" will suddenly start saying that economy has recovered come Oct 28.

I absolutely will - that's the whole point of any technical argument.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#152

Post by mymyairduster »

nsxwolf wrote: post #99
conqrr wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bar here is interview performance bar. There is no way to judge a person's performance in 4 hours. Anything you come up with can be hacked or imperfect. Therefore there is no way to set a bar.

In my current role I've done about 30 whiteboard interviews in the last 2.5 years, and I come down on the side that they are about as predictive as throwing darts. The most successful candidates I've helped hire in my career were the ones where we had an informal process where we just talked about things and I went with my gut. They say that's not objective or measurable, full of bias, etc. I toss my hands up in frus…

That's true for me too but it's not allowed now because of DEI and anti-bias processes

so now it's a leetcode packets for everyone even though the candidates we've hired though them have been worse, our org is now filled people folks who studied for the test instead of having geniuine interest and unique aspirations

it's a charade since I had people from more varied backgrounds (economic, national .. etc) who were able to start decent carreres before having to change

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#153

Post by yrgulation »

adam_arthur wrote: post #89

This is likely to be the recession that halts the rapid inflation in tech wages. Rising risk free rate has hit growth companies the hardest, and there are likely to be a large swath of layoffs right as we have tons of people bootcamping and switching into the industry. Supply and demand of labor in tech will enter balance for the first time since ~2010. The FFR is looking to have a reasonable chance to go to 5% at th…

We are barely in the early stages of automation and digitalisation. There may be a temporary bump but we are nowhere near where we should be in terms of automating things. Let alone the existing code that needs maintenance. Large and boring companies, the Chryslers of the software world, will undergo a slowdown. There will be new tech and process coming around. We still have trains driven by people, planes flown by pilots, factory floors maned by workers, tills handled by cashiers, cars that dont drive themselves, we dont yet have robots coming to our door, and so on. The current state is just the beginning.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#154

Post by JamesianP »

ls65536 wrote: post #101
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economy is shrinking because boomers are retiring at a rate faster than we can fill jobs. The Boomer economists at the Fed have responded by raising interest rates so that Xers, Millennials, and Zoomers don't get uppity and ask for more money.

> The Boomer economists at the Fed have responded by raising interest rates so that Xers, Millennials, and Zoomers don't get uppity and ask for more money. Maybe so, but you might want to also consider at the same time what's happening to all that Boomer wealth mostly tied up in retirement accounts (stocks and bonds) and in the real estate that they own while these interest rates rise. Sure, the effects here aren't e…

That is the game, figuring out what pain affects the decision makers personally.

They apparently don't worry much about stocks. Bonds they care more about (I'd guess their personal wealth is mostly there). Sooner or later they'll probably do something (or bigger somethings).

Real estate is the big question. Will they let it really crash or not?

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#155

Post by abeyer »

no_wizard wrote: post #127
humanwhosits wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess hiring for contracts routes around arbitrary headcount limits.

I think it has more to do with getting around benefits, usually. The expense for businesses isn't just the salary, in fact alot of businesses, if they could just pay the salary, would be able to retain / hire more people, but benefits + high salary is harder to take on. This is a great argument for universal healthcare and a nationalized pension system, but I digress

But you just pay _more_ for the contractors, at least if you hire locally. In my experience contract rates for comparable work any place you'd want to work are typically marked up (at least) enough to roughly compensate for the difference in benefits and taxes.

Especially now that remote for FTEs has become so common, there wouldn't be much motivation to take long term contracts otherwise. That may change if the job market goes pear-shaped, but doesn't seem like we're there yet.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#157

Post by jcadam »

no_wizard wrote: post #58
01100011 wrote: post #35

We (large FANGish) are more or less in a hiring freeze but still grabbing a few new hires here and there. A friend just interviewed for SSE at AAPL and seemed to have the job only to be told they closed the req. I'm still getting lots of recruiter spam though so I think we're still fairly early in any sort of layoff cycle. The economy is still trucking. Despite many people trying to be first to declare it, we're not…

I'm seeing a massive uptick in recruiting for contract roles compared to a year ago though. A year ago (and even, 3-4 months ago) it was all full time positions nearly exclusively, now it's all heavily weighted toward contract Lots of "18+ month" or "long term" contract verbiage, but contract none the less. Definitely a shift. Seeing more contract to hire too

Contract rates are down though, less than what you would expect to earn as a FTE.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#158

Post by jcadam »

sarchertech wrote: post #6
lumost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the Senior market is saturated? this is an early sign companies are getting nervous about bloat. After the '08 recession many companies rushed to ditch Architect titles as they found that the role did not serve the interests of their productive engineers or the companies higher ups. Companies that had gone heavy on such talent might find themselves stuck. I recall seeing talks on "Staff Engineer" and thinking that…

Staff engineer is just title inflation for what used to be senior engineer. Senior engineers at most companies just means this isn’t your first job right out of college.

And some companies don't even have a "staff" title, just several levels of "Senior Engineer." Makes it hard when applying for a staff role at another company.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#159

Post by Ozzie_osman »

returningfory2 wrote: post #150
01100011 wrote: post #35

We (large FANGish) are more or less in a hiring freeze but still grabbing a few new hires here and there. A friend just interviewed for SSE at AAPL and seemed to have the job only to be told they closed the req. I'm still getting lots of recruiter spam though so I think we're still fairly early in any sort of layoff cycle. The economy is still trucking. Despite many people trying to be first to declare it, we're not…

Genuine question: what does FANGish mean?

Resembling FANG: large, high-paying consumer tech co. My guess is it could be Twitter, Uber, Airbnb, something like that.

Re: How much have tech layoffs affected engineers vs. other departments?

#160

Post by jcadam »

dominotw wrote: post #9
sarchertech wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Staff engineer is just title inflation for what used to be senior engineer. Senior engineers at most companies just means this isn’t your first job right out of college.

I have 15 yoe and have senior software engineer title so do people with 2 yrs experience. I might be doing same thing over and over. Time to make a radical change :/.

I have 16 yoe and have been a senior software engineer since forever.
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