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Ask HN: To MacBook or Not to MacBook?

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Ask HN: To MacBook or Not to MacBook?

#1

Post by armajid »

I was reading up on becoming a hacker from Eric S. Raymond's HOWTO and it stated NOT to run MacOS since it is proprietary (which makes it difficult to learn how to hack) but I also remember reading Paul Graham's essay 'Return of the Mac' which highlighted the reasons why hackers (in 2005 anyway) started using Macs again (the OS and great hardware design).

My question is, in 2022, should a person learning to hack get and use a MacBook? I see the two sides and I'm conflicted.

If you suggest running a Linux VM through UTM on the M1 Macs, I will counter by stating that you can only run ARM ISOs and I imagine there may be problems with software not compiled for ARM which could hinder the learning process but what do you think?

Re: Ask HN: To MacBook or Not to MacBook?

#2

Post by prange »

> which makes it difficult to learn how to hack

This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. It’s true that you can’t rebuild the kernel or os services, or modify the system very much at all so if that is the kind of hacking you want to learn, then you shouldn’t use a Mac.

However, if by ‘learn to hack’ you mean ‘learn to code applications and services’, then Macs are great. You can learn both Apple’s proprietary stuff and all of the significant open source tooling and languages.

Re: Ask HN: To MacBook or Not to MacBook?

#3

Post by CharlesW »

FWIW, Asahi Linux is making nice progress on Apple Silicon support: https://asahilinux.org/2022/07/july-2022-release/

> If you suggest running a Linux VM through UTM on the M1 Macs, I will counter by stating that you can only run ARM ISOs…

I think that's incorrect. From the UTM home page: "On Intel Macs, x86/x64 operating system can be virtualized. In addition, lower performance emulation is available to run x86/x64 on Apple Silicon as well as ARM64 on Intel."

Re: Ask HN: To MacBook or Not to MacBook?

#4

Post by tjr »

I think part of the question has to be to consider, what do you want to hack?

If you're interested in hacking on your computer's operating system, then you will find more flexibility with GNU/Linux or FreeBSD than with MacOS.

But if you're interested in higher-level applications -- tools, programming languages, artificial intelligence, numerical computing, etc. -- then the practical difference becomes much less.

My interests fall more at the higher level of programs, and have been happily using MacOS for most of the past 20 years.

Re: Ask HN: To MacBook or Not to MacBook?

#5

Post by armajid »

CharlesW wrote: post #3

FWIW, Asahi Linux is making nice progress on Apple Silicon support: https://asahilinux.org/2022/07/july-2022-release/ > If you suggest running a Linux VM through UTM on the M1 Macs, I will counter by stating that you can only run ARM ISOs… I think that's incorrect. From the UTM home page: "On Intel Macs, x86/x64 operating system can be virtualized. In addition, lower performance emulation is available to run x86/x64…

Thanks for the correction. I would be concerned of the lower performance (how much lower?) but this may be a nonissue now.

Re: Ask HN: To MacBook or Not to MacBook?

#6

Post by tysehr37 »

Really depends what you're after. I personally have stuck with mac for the last 5 years for ease of use and build quality. After working on mining rigs, I really value all-in-one to avoid dealing with configuration issues and the like. If you're looking for that fine tuned granular control though, then mac won't ever satisfy.

Re: Ask HN: To MacBook or Not to MacBook?

#7

Post by armajid »

prange wrote: post #2

> which makes it difficult to learn how to hack This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. It’s true that you can’t rebuild the kernel or os services, or modify the system very much at all so if that is the kind of hacking you want to learn, then you shouldn’t use a Mac. However, if by ‘learn to hack’ you mean ‘learn to code applications and services’, then Macs are great. You can learn both Apple’s proprietary stuff an…

I see what you mean, thank you.

Re: Ask HN: To MacBook or Not to MacBook?

#8

Post by armajid »

tjr wrote: post #4

I think part of the question has to be to consider, what do you want to hack? If you're interested in hacking on your computer's operating system, then you will find more flexibility with GNU/Linux or FreeBSD than with MacOS. But if you're interested in higher-level applications -- tools, programming languages, artificial intelligence, numerical computing, etc. -- then the practical difference becomes much less. My i…

Wow, thank you for sharing!

Re: Ask HN: To MacBook or Not to MacBook?

#9

Post by armajid »

tysehr37 wrote: post #6

Really depends what you're after. I personally have stuck with mac for the last 5 years for ease of use and build quality. After working on mining rigs, I really value all-in-one to avoid dealing with configuration issues and the like. If you're looking for that fine tuned granular control though, then mac won't ever satisfy.

I see, thank you.
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