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MAR1D: First-Person Mario

mar1d.com

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Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#151

Post by dusted »

JadoJodo wrote: post #13

Something I've never understood about 2D/Flatland as a "visual" idea: In the case of this Mar1d, if I'm on the X-axis, and can only see the Y-axis, wouldn't any amount of detail in the Z-axis constitute a 3D image? The Y-axis stretched even a single "pixel" along Z would make it 3D, right? Similarly, for Flatlandia: If I'm a 2D square on the X-axis, and can see "around" me on the Z-axis, wouldn't my ability to see an…

Another perspective on this is..

When we're rendering a 3D environment on a 2D plane, we're projecting it "down", so that we can perceive it.

When we're rendering a 2D environment on a 2D plane, are we doing nothing to to ? Maybe, but the 2D environment we've constructed to begin with is probably inspired from our native 3D thinking.

But when we're rendering a 1D environment on a 2D plane, which we need to do to perceive it, because we don't have a visual organ for perceiving 1D environments of the kinds constructed in "native 2D thinking".. So we're projecting "up", adding data to convey a representation of the environment that we can perceive, not as it "is".

Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#152

Post by tomrod »

dudeinjapan wrote: post #140
tomrod wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calvinball rules say the volume of bushes, as a liquid, aren't compressible. Pixels are not moved, outline is overlaid by the body without surrounding the body.

Perhaps they are transmogrified?

Then Mario is above them during the transmorgrificalization.

Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#153

Post by rokobobo »

TuringTest wrote: post #141
dfxm12 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Mario has two eyes. You can see the other when you go the other way.

It's the same eye, you're seeing it from the opposite side of Mario. To have two eyes there should be some horizontal separation between them, which can't happen in 2D.

So his one eye goes through his face and you see it from both sides. Wonderful

Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#154

Post by 4ggr0 »

krageon wrote: post #150
4ggr0 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had the same question and this answer didn't really do it for me. Granted, I am bad at math/trigonometry/geometry etc., but in my understanding, 2D can only work from our perspective, because we're looking at it from a perfect angle. Mario shouldn't see anything, because his viewing angle does not exist. Or is the rule about 2D that his perspective just has a width of at least more than nothing? My lack of understa…

His perspective is essentially the same as ours would be of four-dimensional space: The space can exist, we can move through it, but we can only ever see three dimensions of it at a time. It is the same for mario and the way that makes sense to you is as a line. Even if it is a line with no inherent width, that doesn't mean that Mario cannot see it.

> Even if it is a line with no inherent width, that doesn't mean that Mario cannot see it.

Yeah, that's the part I don't really understand. I'll probably have to watch some videos to get it.

Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#156

Post by the_af »

4ggr0 wrote: post #143
the_af wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you mean the line doesn't have a single pixel width, this is what the website explains: How is this 1D? The game is more than one pixel wide! The game width can actually be adjusted, including to a width of one pixel. That's how I prefer to play, but other people had trouble seeing what was going on. Regardless of how much you stretch it though, there is only one dimension of information, the horizontal smear is e…

I had the same question and this answer didn't really do it for me. Granted, I am bad at math/trigonometry/geometry etc., but in my understanding, 2D can only work from our perspective, because we're looking at it from a perfect angle. Mario shouldn't see anything, because his viewing angle does not exist. Or is the rule about 2D that his perspective just has a width of at least more than nothing? My lack of understa…

Oh, you mean the physics of "seeing"? I thought the question was about why the vertical line is not 1-pixel wide.

As for "seeing": the real world is 3D. The physics of seeing work in 3D. I don't think there are true 1D or 2D objects in the universe, so we must use our imaginations when we say "Mario is seeing" in 1D or 2D.

We must, like others argued, imagine Mario possesses a way of sensing/seeing that works in 1D, something that doesn't exist in the real world.

PS: alternatively, the line is 2D in the sense that it's made of physical 3D pixels, and Mario can see those. But the line is also 1D in the sense its width offers no additional information because it's a single pixel wide; so it's physically 2D but "informationally" 1D.

Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#157

Post by the_af »

4ggr0 wrote: post #154
krageon wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His perspective is essentially the same as ours would be of four-dimensional space: The space can exist, we can move through it, but we can only ever see three dimensions of it at a time. It is the same for mario and the way that makes sense to you is as a line. Even if it is a line with no inherent width, that doesn't mean that Mario cannot see it.

> Even if it is a line with no inherent width, that doesn't mean that Mario cannot see it. Yeah, that's the part I don't really understand. I'll probably have to watch some videos to get it.

You are right human (animal) eyes wouldn't be able to see a true 1D object. Then again, true 1D objects don't exist.

Re: MAR1D: First-Person Mario

#158

Post by the_af »

bitofhope wrote: post #148
ogoparootbbo wrote: post #43

how is this 1d when there is a second dimension albeit small?

Consider a number line: ┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼ ... 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... Any point on the line can be described by a single coordinate, so the line is one-dimensional. We could also describe all of them in terms of a two-dimensional plane [(0,0), (0,1), (0,2) etc.] but that would just be redundant. Just like representing the number line with a taller figure doesn't really make the abstract line any different: │ │ │ │…

Now I think the original question was about how Mario is capable of seeing at all something that is 1D, in the sense of "how are Mario's physical eyes able to perceive something that has only 1 dimension".

And he's right, Mario wouldn't be able to see a mathematical line (i.e. something truly 1D and infinitely thin), because there'd be nothing to reflect light for his eyes to perceive. I think the answer here is that Mario isn't an animal with animal eyes, and his fictional "vision" must work in different ways so that he can perceive purely 1D "mathematical" lines.

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