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Project Starline expands testing through an early access program

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Re: Project Starline expands testing through an early access program

#131

Post by HWR_14 »

PostOnce wrote: post #119

On the bottom of the video clips, it says: "Not authorized by FCC rules. No sales or leases permitted until authorized." What is that about? I've never seen it before, and I've seen a lot of stuff. Are they required to print that by some rule I'm unfamiliar with?

Before electronics can be sold in the US, the go through testing to prove it doesn't create electromagnetic interference. Those rules are set by the FCC. Some uses (e.g. R&D prototypes) are exempted. This is Google's legal team covering their asses by making it clear these are prototypes.

There's every reason to assume these will pass the tests, but there's no reason to do so until you have the hardware pretty locked down.

Re: Project Starline expands testing through an early access program

#132

Post by dmitriid »

andybak wrote: post #17
twobitshifter wrote: post #5

This is my favorite Google project. I hope it becomes something that we all can use. To me, at least, this is more useful than meeting in vr with no legs.

I think the legs thing is overblown. No legs is better than uncanny valley legs.

No legs was just a symbol for how bad the whole thing is in general:

- "Metaverse" of 2022, https://twitter.com/shiringhaffary/status/157989246831667609...

- Playstation Home of 2007, https://twitter.com/CaseyTheVA/status/1579936236122185728

Re: Project Starline expands testing through an early access program

#133

Post by andybak »

dmitriid wrote: post #132
andybak wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the legs thing is overblown. No legs is better than uncanny valley legs.

No legs was just a symbol for how bad the whole thing is in general: - "Metaverse" of 2022, https://twitter.com/shiringhaffary/status/157989246831667609... - Playstation Home of 2007, https://twitter.com/CaseyTheVA/status/1579936236122185728

Bad visually? Or bad in terms of user-experience?

Or in terms of overall utility? For whom?

VRChat and RecRoom both are arguably "metaverses" (although we just called it "social VR" pre-hype) and have pretty healthy usage numbers. The latter is more of a games hub but all these apps are a mix of different use-cases so not a clear distinction. (Consider Fortnite which is now social but was originally just a multiplayer game)

There's a debate to be had about aesthetics - some of that boils down to taste. But you can't argue that all social VR apps are useless.

EDIT - wording tweaks

Re: Project Starline expands testing through an early access program

#134

Post by terinjokes »

KerrAvon wrote: post #91
jnwatson wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this were from a startup, no one would be saying the same, but because it is Google, folks want to ride the bandwagon. Microsoft has cancelled thousands of products, but nobody says a thing. Yet the number of hardware products Google has cancelled you can count on 1 hand.

if you have a hand with 21 fingers https://killedbygoogle.com Filter Graveyard List Hardware (21)

If we used the "Killed By Google" criteria for hardware by other tech companies it would be significantly longer than 21. Of the products that made it past a tech demo, most were simply superseded by other hardware products, and many continued to work after the "killed" date (and some continue to work to this day).

As jsnell said in another comment on this article, the list is bad.

Re: Project Starline expands testing through an early access program

#135

Post by MauranKilom »

jefftk wrote: post #45
buildbot wrote: post #25

1. Echoing all the comments here, can’t see google keeping this around for 5+ years 2. I feel like the main thing holding back a normal video meeting or even voice call is latency - latency leads to the awkward pauses or interruptions that for me cause the most “connection friction”. If anyone here has talked on an actual landline recently, it feels qualitatively better than a teams voice call for example due to the…

Latency isn't actually that hard to fix: if both connections are wired (both internet and headphones / speakers) you can get round trip latency down to about 15ms which is good enough to feel immediate and on par with POTS. It's just a matter of getting your coworkers onto ethernet, and convincing them to give up their Bluetooth headphones...

> you can get round trip latency down to about 15ms

(...if everyone is within about 1000 miles).

Re: Project Starline expands testing through an early access program

#136

Post by dmitriid »

andybak wrote: post #133
dmitriid wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No legs was just a symbol for how bad the whole thing is in general: - "Metaverse" of 2022, https://twitter.com/shiringhaffary/status/157989246831667609... - Playstation Home of 2007, https://twitter.com/CaseyTheVA/status/1579936236122185728

Bad visually? Or bad in terms of user-experience? Or in terms of overall utility? For whom? VRChat and RecRoom both are arguably "metaverses" (although we just called it "social VR" pre-hype) and have pretty healthy usage numbers. The latter is more of a games hub but all these apps are a mix of different use-cases so not a clear distinction. (Consider Fortnite which is now social but was originally just a multiplaye…

> But you can't argue that all social VR apps are useless.

I'm not arguing that.

I think I pretty clearly stated what I meant. Everything else is you arguing with someone else.

Re: Project Starline expands testing through an early access program

#137

Post by jefftk »

MauranKilom wrote: post #135
jefftk wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Latency isn't actually that hard to fix: if both connections are wired (both internet and headphones / speakers) you can get round trip latency down to about 15ms which is good enough to feel immediate and on par with POTS. It's just a matter of getting your coworkers onto ethernet, and convincing them to give up their Bluetooth headphones...

> you can get round trip latency down to about 15ms (...if everyone is within about 1000 miles).

True! Light at 5ms per 1k miles (each way) sets a hard limit on latency.

Re: Project Starline expands testing through an early access program

#138

Post by hammock »

lm28469 wrote: post #126
hammock wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares? Why is every comment in this thread about how they hate google ventures? Can’t we discuss the idea itself?

> Why is every comment in this thread about how they hate google ventures? Because every products they make that isn't collecting data to build their advertising profiles or display ads ends up in the graveyard after a few months/years

Google doesn’t have to be the one to build the magic window. It could be one of us here.

Let’s discuss the merits of the idea, not Google’s reputation.

Then maybe go and copy it in an environment where it won’t get killed by a corporate overlord

Re: Project Starline expands testing through an early access program

#139

Post by andybak »

dmitriid wrote: post #136
andybak wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad visually? Or bad in terms of user-experience? Or in terms of overall utility? For whom? VRChat and RecRoom both are arguably "metaverses" (although we just called it "social VR" pre-hype) and have pretty healthy usage numbers. The latter is more of a games hub but all these apps are a mix of different use-cases so not a clear distinction. (Consider Fortnite which is now social but was originally just a multiplaye…

> But you can't argue that all social VR apps are useless. I'm not arguing that. I think I pretty clearly stated what I meant. Everything else is you arguing with someone else.

You said:

> No legs was just a symbol for how bad the whole thing is in general:

That isn't terribly clear to me at all. "How bad" in what way? What is "the whole thing"? The links you provided are comparing two apps. I presume you prefer one to the other. I'm guessing the reason is visual..? But I'm not sure.

I was actually hoping for some more clarity from you.

Re: Project Starline expands testing through an early access program

#140

Post by TheRealPomax »

jnwatson wrote: post #61
TheRealPomax wrote: post #41

Quoted post unavailable.

If this were from a startup, no one would be saying the same, but because it is Google, folks want to ride the bandwagon. Microsoft has cancelled thousands of products, but nobody says a thing. Yet the number of hardware products Google has cancelled you can count on 1 hand.

Maybe because Google has made "create a thing and kill it off because it doesn't push the needle, instead of spinning it off to its own company" is their literal modus operandus?

If a random startup had made this: cool! It might actually stay in business because pushing their needle doesn't require making at least 30 million a year from the get-go.

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