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Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

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Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#401

Post by jjtheblunt »

scarface74 wrote: post #320
jjtheblunt wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People need to remember that desktop/laptop ARMs outside of Apple have kind of royally sucked... I've got an SQ1 and Apple M2 and they're both truly excellent. (disclaimer: I worked years in engineering in both Qualcomm and Apple)

Got some benchmarks?

Good point: they're excellent for MY benchmarks, to your point (I think).

Essentially I run them all day with Visual Studio Code and vim sessions, Firefox scanning news and documentation (and of course normal email etc), and ssh to cloud hosts.

Your mileage and evaluation could of course vary.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#402

Post by donedealomg »

fomine3 wrote: post #366
giantg2 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think they do significantly more graphics and embedded than Intel. But I could be wrong.

Graphics business should be worse than CPU business after crypt bubble gone and ETH PoS. Gaming PC isn't a very big market for CPU, but big for GPU.

No post body was provided.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#403

Post by phendrenad2 »

adrr wrote: post #391
phendrenad2 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love comments like this. I don't think any other industry has this kind of sport-team mythos in the mind of the layman. If Ford or Toyota has a bad year, people think "Hmm they need to make better cars". If Intel or AMD has a bad year, people say "Clearly they need do hire that guy who was in charge when they made all those good chips". It's incredibly lazy thinking, and I love it.

Intel has had a bad 10 years. The market has more than doubled in size and yet they have grown 25%. 10 years ago Intel made more revenue than AMD, Nvidia, and Qualcomm combined. I bet Qualcomm passes Intel in revenue in two years. All those companies have more than doubled their revenue. AMD went from $6b to $22b. NVidia from $4b to $30b. Qualcomm $19B to $54B. Intel went from $53B to $68B with the last 2 years being…

This is irrelevant. If Ford or Toyota have 10 bad years, people will not suddenly start talking about all of the superstar, legendary car designers they should pull out of book signings back onto the field.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#404

Post by phendrenad2 »

alfor wrote: post #364
phendrenad2 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love comments like this. I don't think any other industry has this kind of sport-team mythos in the mind of the layman. If Ford or Toyota has a bad year, people think "Hmm they need to make better cars". If Intel or AMD has a bad year, people say "Clearly they need do hire that guy who was in charge when they made all those good chips". It's incredibly lazy thinking, and I love it.

If Ford or Toyota had a Steve Job or Elon musk they wouldn’t be in the same place. Listen to interview with Jim Keller, yes, there is a whole team doing the work, but you need a technical/management person with the credibility and willingness to make the hard choices and take risks. 99% of people hired for CEO roles will be happy to coast, take their bonus on short time gains and move to the next opportunity. Who is…

> Try with arguments instead

Your original post had no argument, either, so I don't see the necessity.

Now that you've provided an argument, we can have a discussion, starting with:

> Intel was really sleeping on this one to be kicked that hard by Apple on the first release of their desktop chip

This isn't true. The M1 in a desktop isn't competitive against Intel chips.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#405

Post by BarryMilo »

brewdad wrote: post #264
px1999 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given their respective revenue, AMD's market cap does indicate they're crushing it. Their multiplier means that the market thinks highly of their ability to continue to grow.

Given that AMD shares are down more than 61% YTD (vs 52% for INTC), I'd say neither company is setting positive expectations for the future. *edit added YTD for clarity

I've seen another comment saying their revenue is way up YoY. What does this mean when compared with share price changes?

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#406

Post by AaronFriel »

tehnub wrote: post #359
AaronFriel wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel repeated their Prescott (Pentium 4/Pentium D) strategy of completely removing power limitations on their team to beat AMD. As a result, the Intel processors have TDPs and real world power usages >2.5x that of a comparable Ryzen. Sure, they're winning, but at what cost ? The 12900K at 240 watts pulls almost the same power as a 280W 64-core Threadripper. AMD is responding in kind, with new top-end processors pull…

I'm not sure if the actual differences in energy usage are so clear cut. These charts [0], which account for the 12900K spending less time to accomplish tasks than the 5950X, seem to indicate the disparity isn't so terrible. You can always under-volt too; the 13th gen press release includes charts [1] showing that the 13900k at 65W matches the performance of the 12900K at 241W. [0]: (Search for "cumulative amount of…

Most people don't turn their computer on to run Handbreak and turn it off immediately afterward.

Hence power draw is meaningful for desktop computers, not just energy usage for a task.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#407

Post by eitland »

scarface74 wrote: post #368
caller9 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPad runs iOS, which I suppose is what they meant. Windows ARM is less locked down than Windows S. iOS is still a walled-garden with a few holes here and there. The second part of your question is key though "why most people should care." They obviously don't. It "just works" and generally keeps them from doing insecure shit. Want to buy hardware from someone else? Tough shit! Why would you anyway? You've got mon…

> The iPad runs iOS, which I suppose is what they meant. Windows ARM is less locked down than Windows S. iOS is still a walled-garden with a few holes here and there. The conversation never mentioned “iOS” or phones and the submission is about Intel who has nothing to do with mobile or Android. He specifically said MacOS: >> Well yes, but then you have to use macOS and the locked down close ecosystem that is Apple. W…

It is mentioned a long way up this thread:

>> Casual reminder that the now two year old Apple M1 still smokes every single chip I just mentioned, all in a fanless iPad Air.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#408

Post by saagarjha »

CameronNemo wrote: post #129
cantaloupe wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWS developed two generations of an in-house ARM chip (Graviton), which I think is cheaper for an equivalent power to an x86 instance. Cloudflare has also begun switching to ARM, for 57% more performance per watt: https://blog.cloudflare.com/designing-edge-servers-with-arm-...

IIRC GCP is using AMD EPYC. Not sure about Azure.

GCP offers instances on many processors, including AMD EPYC: https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/compute/amd-epyc-proc.... Here's another one: https://cloud.google.com/intel/

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#409

Post by sundvor »

gtirloni wrote: post #351
AaronFriel wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel repeated their Prescott (Pentium 4/Pentium D) strategy of completely removing power limitations on their team to beat AMD. As a result, the Intel processors have TDPs and real world power usages >2.5x that of a comparable Ryzen. Sure, they're winning, but at what cost ? The 12900K at 240 watts pulls almost the same power as a 280W 64-core Threadripper. AMD is responding in kind, with new top-end processors pull…

Who cares what a desktop processor plugged to a wall outlet consumes? Seriously, if you care about power consumption, don't buy a K processor.

When a 5800X3D offers equal or better gaming performance at 1/2 to 1/3rd the power consumption (e.g. 220w vs 80w), and you pay $0.65 per kW/h during peak times, I can only imagine: "Quite a few".

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#410

Post by avereveard »

AaronFriel wrote: post #406
tehnub wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if the actual differences in energy usage are so clear cut. These charts [0], which account for the 12900K spending less time to accomplish tasks than the 5950X, seem to indicate the disparity isn't so terrible. You can always under-volt too; the 13th gen press release includes charts [1] showing that the 13900k at 65W matches the performance of the 12900K at 241W. [0]: (Search for "cumulative amount of…

Most people don't turn their computer on to run Handbreak and turn it off immediately afterward. Hence power draw is meaningful for desktop computers, not just energy usage for a task.

Idle power draw is not the same as peak power draw either, these arent 'nineties chips.
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