Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon) • Hacker News Board

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#571

Post by posguy » Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 3:22 AM UTC

velosol wrote: post #466

codethief wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wikipedia says that Moxie is still on the Signal Board of Directors, but I find it hard to believe that he would let something this crazy go through. IIRC I read (some years ago) that Moxie wasn't really convinced that SMS support should stay in Signal-Android, either.

He was definitely against the encryption-over-SMS feature of TextSecure as Android and smartphones more broadly grew in marketshare. He also wrote the blog post on how it doesn't matter if you have multiple messaging apps (or federation between them) because the notification area of your phone is the modern federation engine. I may be paraphrasing a bit heavily but the post is at [1]. I agree I can see him being at l…

The ecosystem has kept moving, and Signal has not been keeping pace.

Whether Signal can catch up to its open and closed source competition remains an open question, and I don't think features like Signal Stories are going to be what helps them start nipping at the heels of the other much larger competition.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#572

Post by nichos » Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 3:32 AM UTC

numpad0 wrote: post #214

eatwater123 wrote: post #10

This is an awful decision. I've converted some friends and family to Signal over the past years (it took a while) and it is now their default messaging app on their phones. This is going to confuse them and is going to make it difficult for me to keep convincing them that Signal is the route to use. ("Why do I need 3 apps (Android Messages, Signal, Whatsapp) to talk to people?")

Should offering both service and its client app be regulated?

By whom?

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#573

Post by nichos » Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 3:34 AM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #481

nilespotter wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... and there's the reason I will likely stop using Signal? > Signal was always one of those "win-win" apps, get more security when it's available and I don't have to worry about adding to the giant bucket of messaging apps. Same here. I see no reason to continue using Signal if they do this.

Which E2E encrypted app that matches Signals security will you be switching to instead?

Briar

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#574

Post by wildzzz » Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 3:52 AM UTC

iudqnolq wrote: post #398

daedalus_j wrote: post #149

I've been using Signal for a long time. I have repeatedly been unable to convince iOS users to use Signal because "I don't want another app". Android users have been much more willing to give it a shot. As an android user myself, I much prefer having SMS built in because I use the search feature often to look back through all my SMS/Signal chats. I also regularly forward an SMS message to a Signal user, or vice versa…

The only reason this isn't a dealbreaker for me is because their sms implementation was so buggy and feature-poor that I would never have used it. (The only reason I use signal is to talk to my girlfriend. The only reason we use it is early in our relationship I was going through a phase where I adopted annoying privacy tools. I wanted to abandon it, but after years of using it she's developed positive emotional asso…

I used to use WhatsApp with my girlfriend because I had awful cell service at work but did have wifi. We switched to Signal and have been using it for years. She only talks to me on it and iMessage for everything else but I use it for SMS too. We would literally get into arguments sometimes because she wouldn't see SMS messages I'd send her with my one bar of 3G or they would be out of order and cause confusion. I love having all of my conversations in one app. I really like Signal and if this change goes through, it might make me seriously consider just getting an iPhone next time.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#575

Post by stormbrew » Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 4:18 AM UTC

chaxor wrote: post #403

MikeKusold wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's various levels of encryption that are acceptable depending on your risk level. I'm mainly concerned about SMS spoofing and mass surveillance. iMessage protects against that. The only way the government can read your messages is by serving Apple with a warrant to obtain your iCloud backup. If I had a lower risk tolerance, I would disable iCloud backups to improve my security.

I don't think people are only concerned about the government, but rather the corporations that own your data (via storing the encryption key to use whenever they want, to look through whatever they want)

In the end signal and imessage (with backups off) provide roughly the same claimed guarantee here (on a technical level at least). They both promise not to secretly inject additional client keys into your account, (to at least obtain a forward-operating 'wire tap'), but the software you're running is all opaque and could certainly do so if they wanted (or were compelled) to.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#576

Post by borgel » Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 4:55 AM UTC

anonym29 wrote: post #564

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy crap, this 100%. I am absolutely distraught. I give monthly donations, have moved mountains to get family and friends over to Signal, and viewed it as a last bastion for security and interoperability between iOS and Android. Now we will get neither. Gutted. I will end up switching to a different provider. Absolutely don't know if I'll be able to convince family and friends to switch again.

>viewed it as a last bastion for security and interoperability between iOS and Android >Now we will get neither Correct me if I'm wrong, but: - If you and your counterparty are both using Signal, nothing about the security of your communication changes. - If your counterparty was not using Signal, your messages were over SMS/MMS and therefore not encrypted in the first place, and so once again, nothing about the secu…

That's definitely true! But if both are in one app you don't need to remember who uses Signal and who doesn't; it just works. Now with two apps, you have to run that mental check before sending a message and choose the right app.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#577

Post by Krasnol » Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 5:15 AM UTC

tannhaeuser wrote: post #482

Krasnol wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't met a single person using SMS for so long that I can't even remember the phone I had last time I used it. I do work with a lot different contractors. And yes, WhatsApp is prevalent here.

You're saying this as if it were preferable to give all your contacts and metadata to WhatsApp/Facebook.

Where am I supposed to have done that? It's not even the topic here.

I merely describe the current status in Germany.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#578

Post by meta-level » Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 5:27 AM UTC

It's so very obvious that removing SMS support for "security reasons" is just as saying "please store your insecure SMS plaintext with your stock messages application or better just use WhatsApp for that again". It makes me wonder if there might also be another reason. Legal issues (encryption, governments, etc)?

If not: please Signal guys - that's just a step back. People who write SMS won't stop writing SMS, you just allow another party to do whatever is good for them. And searching through _all_ messages is really a big thing for some of us.

Why not just add some awareness items - visible eyes and ears and dollar signs, together with the information what information is given away and that this might cost money?

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#579

Post by zppln » Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 5:33 AM UTC

nstbayless wrote: post #461

zppln wrote: post #265

> There are three big reasons why we’re removing SMS support for the Android app now: prioritizing security and privacy, ensuring people aren’t hit with unexpected messaging bills, and creating a clear and intelligible user experience for anyone sending messages on Signal. Pretty weak reasoning to me. Just do what Apple does and color sms messages some other color or whatever. Problem solved. This is gonna make me dr…

Signal already colours SMS and encrypted messages differently. Unecrypted (SMS) messages are grey; encrypted messages are blue.

Hm, not in my app (Android)? Unencrypted messages have an open padlock next to them, whereas encrypted ones have double checkmarks. But no difference in color, even in conversations that contain both.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#580

Post by b_m_x » Thu, Oct 13, 2022, 5:35 AM UTC

For a starter, i don't rembember having a choice to replace the default messaging app with signal when i installed it. Also don't remember any settings to split it back to default messaging. It has always been All-In-Signal or no-Signal-at-all, and no user choice. Am-I wrong here?