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87% of American teens own an iPhone; 88% expect an iPhone to be their next phone

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Re: 87% of American teens own an iPhone; 88% expect an iPhone to be their next phone

#551

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We like to fingerwag at social media companies for knowingly negatively impacting children's mental health and self-esteem, yet Apple is aware of how their systems ostracize children, in their own peer groups, who can't afford to carry around luxury phones. It's one thing to be ostracized by strangers on social media, it's an entirely other thing to be ostracized by your own friends and peers. The latter is tragicall…

What is the difference to Nike providing kids with flashy shoes when the sole purpose is class and coolness? According to the same report, Nike is the most preferred fashion brand among teens. At least with Apple's message indication you know you're getting encryption and thus privacy from carriers. Would it be less problematic if Apple simply mentioned "warning: this is unencrypted SMS"?

How do you know that? Because apple says so?

Key exchange happens through apple. App is proprietary and as far as I know the apple devices upload to the apple cloud in a way that makes apple able to read the messages by default.

Re: 87% of American teens own an iPhone; 88% expect an iPhone to be their next phone

#552
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We like to fingerwag at social media companies for knowingly negatively impacting children's mental health and self-esteem, yet Apple is aware of how their systems ostracize children, in their own peer groups, who can't afford to carry around luxury phones. It's one thing to be ostracized by strangers on social media, it's an entirely other thing to be ostracized by your own friends and peers. The latter is tragicall…

This is quite frankly utter bullshit unless there is a lack of parenting going on i.e. you brought your kids up to be judgy assholes. My kids and their friends have a right mix of all sorts of phones. They don't even talk about it. They just work out how to deal with it. Mostly that results in them picking a common platform, usually Discord or Snapchat and using that. This is not a technology issue!

i have a compilation of screenshots from adults saying the same thing from dating

Re: 87% of American teens own an iPhone; 88% expect an iPhone to be their next phone

#553
Well, religion sells, that much is clear. Who ever said that the younger generation were not religious? They are, they just changed their object of devotion.

Meanwhile my daughters use second-hand Android phones running AOSP-derived distributions, as do I myself. Only my wife - who has a company-issued Samsung Galaxy A40 which they do not want me to mess with - runs a stock distribution but I did manage to tame the beast by disabling snoopy Samsung "services" and installing an ad-blocking local VPN firewall. They haven't complained yet so I guess we're good to go.

For the price of a single second-hand iPhone SE2 (around $200 where I live (Sweden)) I could buy both my daughter's phones as well as my own. Still these Android devices offer far more useable features than that iPhone and they'll last longer as well if my 11 year old Motorola Defy which I use daily is anything to go by [1]. It still gets 3 days on a single charge, running the original battery - which is replaceable if so needed.

Instead of iMessage we use mostly Telegram plus some XMPP as a backup in case Telegram goes bad. My oldest daughter also has Whatsapp installed but hardly ever uses it. Our data is kept on the server-under-the-stairs, out of reach of greedy data hogs like Apple/Google/Microsoft/etc. The Invidious server (also under the stairs of course) keeps Youtube ad-free, our own mail server (under... you guessed it) keeps our mail from being harvested by data parasites, etc.

Just like iPhones often are stepping stones to largely Apple-dominated monocultures so these AOSP-derived Androids can be stepping stones to free software households. I do know which of these I prefer. There is only one system left here running Windows, this being my wife's company-issued laptop.

The moral of this post is that parents do have some influence over their children's choices if they start early enough. By the time they reach their early teens they are far more focused on what their friends do so make sure to inculcate a healthy distrust of Big Data and its marketing practices - green bubbles and all - in them. If it worked for us, it can work for you.

[1] The Defy was marketed as being 'IP67 waterproof and shockproof'. My oldest daughter used to have a Defy as well. She left it in her trouser pocket when she dumped those trousers in the washing and started the cycle. One complete cycle (at 40°C) plus 1200 RPM spin cycle later she found it - it was still working... The damage? I replaced the earpiece, for the rest it just worked. I'm using that device as a remote-controlled media player now. While rather underpowered and short on memory the thing still works fine as a "dangerous work" phone. You won't like browsing the Javascript-encumbred web on it though...

Re: 87% of American teens own an iPhone; 88% expect an iPhone to be their next phone

#554
post #430
post #223

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Citation needed. Is this really true? I keep hearing about RCS etc but I also keep hearing it's not actually a good standard. Not even sure it does encryption frankly.

It's the same old story of perfect being the enemy of good (plus clear ulterior motives for Apple). Adding RCS compatibility would negatively impact precisely zero iPhone users, and would positively impact literally everyone (including iPhone users!). RCS may have its warts, but I do not see Apple proposing a better standard? Everyone agrees SMS/MMS is about as bad as it can be... and there's already a lot of industr…

Visit matrix.org for a better standard

Re: 87% of American teens own an iPhone; 88% expect an iPhone to be their next phone

#555
post #270

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Is there some sort of troll farm apple campaign going on here? In my experience Apple has been much more troublesome, their walled garden pretty much guarantees bugs and errors and ofcourse the trademark throttling of CPU, battery, functionality in general when they think it's time for you to get a new phone, where's the die-hard fandom come from? My $340 Android works better than a $1000 iPhone. I admit they're actu…

> My $340 Android works better than a $1000 iPhone. You trolling? I've not had any of the random problems with my iPhone that you describe. And I feel like by now HN users, regardless of ideology, are well aware that the CPU throttling with a degraded battery was a sensible choice to prevent reboots, but was terribly handled and became a PR disaster.

It shocks me how much that supposed technically minded people regurgitate half truths in order to wage an ideological war against Apple.

Whether it’s throttling, repairability, or the App Store, many of Apple’s decisions make a lot more sense when you observe them as products of tradeoffs. One may not like which side of the tradeoff spectrum that Apple chose, that’s fine, but it’s preposterous to pretend like we live in a world in which they do not exist.

Re: 87% of American teens own an iPhone; 88% expect an iPhone to be their next phone

#556
post #208

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Messaging is pretty fascinating. WhatsApp, KakaoTalk, WeChat, Line, Telegram, iMessage all so strongly dominate their respective set of countries/regions and a lot of them have their own distinct set of user mannerisms/memes.

I thought this was funny when I went to work in Korea for a year, as an American, with a bunch of other Americans; all of us stationed there in the military. Upon arrival, the other Americans immediately told me: "You need to get Kakao. It's how you text in Korea." I complied, but I often made the point that it was just another mobile app that they could install and use even back in the United States, and something l…

I can relate - I also spend 4 years living and working in Korea. And I also still have Kakao group chats filled with just other expats including gyopo, in addition to the ones with native friends. :)

Kakao is in many ways kind of the worst of chats - phone number-bound, unspec'd, closed, non-federated, unencrypted, known to be under surveillance, ad-infested. But on the other hand around 2010-2015 the UX was quite ahead of many others, and while Telegram & co have since pulled ahead it's still nicer than, say, WhatsApp or Signal.

Re: 87% of American teens own an iPhone; 88% expect an iPhone to be their next phone

#557
post #322

Americans, do people not use whatsapp over there? In Europe everyone uses whatsapp for literally everything, with a sprinkling of Telegram if you are into something a little subversive and Signal if you actually care about privacy. The only time I use text/sms is to recieve codes for things, and I'm doing that less and less.

I only use whatsapp for contacting friends from outside the country.

Re: 87% of American teens own an iPhone; 88% expect an iPhone to be their next phone

#558
post #275

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87% of the children* I wouldn't call Finding Nemo or it's current equivalent mass market even though I have no doubt 87% of children have seen >.

You don't think finding nemo is mass market?

I would call 'people under 10' to be a targeted market. And it seems Wikipedia agrees:

"The mass market differs from the niche market in that the former focuses on consumers with a wide variety of backgrounds with no identifiable preferences"

Re: 87% of American teens own an iPhone; 88% expect an iPhone to be their next phone

#559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At what time has data ever been cheaper than SMS? Phone plans used to come with a limited number of SMS messages per month (or even none), and the rates per SMS if you went over the limit were beyond extortionate. >Since BlackBerry messages are sent as data, users do not incur individual charges for each message as they would through regular SMS texting. While phone companies have introduced bulk texting plans, man…

> Phone plans used to come with a limited number of SMS messages per month (or even none), and the rates per SMS if you went over the limit were beyond extortionate. But wasn't cellular data priced similarly extortionately back then?

It was certainly too expensive, but nowhere near as expensive as paying twenty five cents for an SMS message that maxed out at 140 bytes.

Before iPhone or Android existed, Blackberry was very popular with teens because you got unlimited messaging on Blackberry Messenger included with the data plan you got with a Blackberry.

Eventually there were cell phone plans where you could add unlimited SMS for an additional fee regardless of what phone you used.

By the time the iPhone rolled around, all the American iPhone plans included unlimited SMS messages without an additional fee.

Re: 87% of American teens own an iPhone; 88% expect an iPhone to be their next phone

#560
post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We like to fingerwag at social media companies for knowingly negatively impacting children's mental health and self-esteem, yet Apple is aware of how their systems ostracize children, in their own peer groups, who can't afford to carry around luxury phones. It's one thing to be ostracized by strangers on social media, it's an entirely other thing to be ostracized by your own friends and peers. The latter is tragicall…

Then just buy an iPhone, or get over it? You're acting as if Android vs. iPhone is an immutable part of a child's identity. It's not. You can get a totally workable used iPhone cheap, because they keep working for so long. It's not like you need a lot of horsepower for texting. My kids take a beat up 8-year-old iPhone 6 out when they go to sleepovers and things. It still works fine.

The US is straight out of a dystopia from an European perspective.
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