Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families • Hacker News Board

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#431

Post by d1sxeyes » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:16 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #339

dragontamer wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> acting negligently > knew that it was false Wrong. The bar for negligence is "should have performed X, but failed to do so". Ex: A toddler dying by falling off a deck is negligence. The homeowner "should have repaired the deck", but failed to do so. (This bar would lead to negligent homicide or manslaughter, depending on jurisdiction). Similarly, a journalist "should have done basic research", but failed to do so,…

The standard relevant in most defamation cases is recklessness, not negligence.

Hm, I'm not sure if that's true or not, but I think a journalist publishing false news stories would be recklessness anyway, not negligence.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#432

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:16 PM UTC

loceng wrote: post #393

badwolf wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He caused his fans to harass families of murdered children for years, several had to move, some multiple times. All the while Alex Jones was raking in millions in cash off it.

How did he cause his fans to harass families? Did he specifically brigade families or tell people to go after them?

[deleted]

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#433

Post by betwixthewires » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:17 PM UTC

I'm not a fan of the guy, I think he's a two bit boner pill salesman, but I find it interesting, this is much higher than most SEC, FTC and FCC fines of big multinationals. Even bigger ones, like Purdue pharma, paid over 5 billion, but killed and addicted hundreds of thousands to a few million people, I'd argue that's more than 5x worse than this. Seems the government likes to be soft on their buddies and excessively hard on their critics and this is no exception to that.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#434

Post by anigbrowl » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:17 PM UTC

maest wrote: post #293

One surprising thing (at least for me) that I don't see anyone talking about in the comments is: I had no idea Alex Jones had that much money. That's 1 billion dollars in damages.

Infowars is wildly profitable. Financial records in a previous trial revealed that their revenue was sometimes as much as $800,000/day.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/05/us/alex-jones-finances.ht...

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#435

Post by unknownaccount » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:18 PM UTC

mostafas wrote: post #408

unknownaccount wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Did Hitler personally kill any Jews? Did Putin personally kill any Ukrainians? Sorry to invoke Godwin's law so early.

No but this still establishes a scary new precedent; that any podcaster/videomaker is now legally responsible for any illegal actions that their viewers commit on their own accord. I can imagine how this will result in people being scared to criticize any leader or person in power because their comment/video might inspire some crazy person to harass them for which they will be found legally responsible.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#436

Post by shagie » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:18 PM UTC

serioussecurity wrote: post #9

belval wrote: post #5

So how were the damage calculated? I get that this guy is a nutjob but how can saying something is a hoax get you a 1B fine?

Punitive damages were a large fraction of the award.

Punitive damages are a different (forthcoming) hearing.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/10/12/us/alex-jones-verdic...

> This case presented the greatest financial risk to Mr. Jones, because he was found liable of violating Connecticut’s Unfair Trade Practices Act, by using lies about the shooting to sell products on Infowars. There is no cap on punitive damages under that law.

> ...

> The next step will be for the judge to consider punitive damages, which would be in addition to Wednesday’s verdict.

The article How the jury divided $965 million in damages among the plaintiffs in the case. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/12/us/politics/alex-jones-da...

This has a breakdown of the compensatory damages and you get things like:

> Defamation/slander damages, past and future: $60 million

> Emotional distress damages, past and future: $60 million

> Total damages: $120 million

for one defendant. As there were 14 defendants, this can sum up quite quickly.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#437

Post by incrudible » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:19 PM UTC

mostafas wrote: post #408

unknownaccount wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Did Hitler personally kill any Jews? Did Putin personally kill any Ukrainians? Sorry to invoke Godwin's law so early.

Did Alex Jones order anyone to do anything? Honest question.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#438

Post by nextaccountic » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:19 PM UTC

voisin wrote: post #403

polotics wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparable damage? Can you imagine your young daughter one days goes to school, never comes back because she bled to death in a corridor there, and then for years you get attacked by strangers claiming you made it all up and are a fake? One thing I really don't understand about the US of A is, while it is abominously violent, still, a pork like Alex Jones hasn't been physically attacked by anyone. It's like there's a…

Isn’t that what it will amount to? He’ll declare bankruptcy and everything he’s got will go to settling some fraction of these lawsuits.

Now, suppose that he tries to hide some assets to not pay what he owes. In this case he can be on the hook even after bankruptcy

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#439

Post by greedo » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:19 PM UTC

paganel wrote: post #430

Blatantly copying from Twitter [1], but it's what I believe, also: > The largest fine paid by a banking executive responsible for the 2008 Financial Crisis was $67.5 million A few tens of millions would have set straight almost everyone involved, the victims getting their money, Jones having to pay out of his pocket. But $1 billion means Jones will never be able to pay the sum, and, what's more, it will also silence…

Interesting and brave take to defend a real scumbag.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#440

Post by conductr » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 10:19 PM UTC

saltminer wrote: post #23

As someone who's been closely following the Infowars/Free Speech Systems trials (watched all the depos, trial footage, etc.), all I can say is that I'm glad these families are finally getting justice. Even though I'm sure it'll be tied up in appeals for awhile (and reduced on appeal), hopefully it'll prevent future harassment campaigns against families when tragedies occur. And before anyone says "but why wasn't Jone…

Up next, the financial crimes folks get to tell us all about how they hid all their assets so as to limit their actual losses