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I am explicitly not siding with Alex Jones in any way.
Not saying that you are. But if Alex tried to make a mockery of the litigation he was facing why is the outcome disproportionate in your opinion? Didn't he undermine the process with his own actions here?
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Defamation law at the time of the framers was even harsher than it is today. Truth wasn't a defense, and there was no "actual malice" standard. You were as likely to be arrested and imprisoned for these kinds of statements as you were to be sued for damages. The founders would have been fine with this outcome.
The bigger debate would have been whether the matter should be pursued through the courts or if the defamer should be challenged to a duel.
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> the plaintiffs were required to show that the false statements caused them harm IIRC, only for public figures. The bar is far lower for private figures btw. A lot of libel/slander that would pass for public figures (ie: Politicians) are absolutely illegal and would be charged if levied against private figures instead (such as me, or the Sandy Hook victims) > Notably, I can put up a billboard in my town that says “A…
Harm is required in all defamation. Public figures additionally must prove “actual malice” on the part of the defendant, which is a term of art distinct from the common usage of “malice”
Harm is required in _most_ defamation. Some claims are considered "defamation per se", in which they are considered automatically harmful.
- Indications that a person was involved in criminal
- Indications that a person had a "loathsome," contagious or infectious
- Indications that a person was unchaste or engaged in sexual misconduct
- Indications that a person was involved in behavior incompatible with the proper conduct of his business, trade or profession
https://www.findlaw.com/injury/torts-and-personal-injuries/w...
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It's a statement of opinion which perfectly fits under the guise of free speech. I can claim that McDonald's hamburgers are made of cat meat to lower prices and it's the exact same thing. It's only because it's political (and Jones is a perennial example to be paraded about as the standard for "evil far-right conservative extremist" thought) that it gets contorted into what it has. This will predictably bite people i…
It is a statement of my opinion, that rglover is a pedophile, that has personally been involved in sodomizing children in the greater New York metropolitan area, and does so frequently while working on plans to do terrorist activities in that city with a shadowy cabal of mostly (insert ethnicity here) figures. Now, my kind viewers on Hacker News, I have to attest that these are just my opinions, and as such, I cannot…
Yes, you are.
> things like defamation and libel law simply do not exist.
I never said they didn't exist.
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If those were the reasonable standards, every media-company would be broke. I'd argue traditional media reaches many more people and the impact of intentional lies is that much greater.
I don't think you'd find traditional media companies routinely getting convicted of defamation this egregious. Although, FOX and Newsmax are both facing $1B+ penalties over their reporting on Dominion Voting Systems. And they're both pretty much dead to rights with Dominion able to point very directly to lost revenue as a result of their deliberate lies. Just reporting something incorrectly isn't punishable at all. P…
I'm probably just a bit bias, as I remember a bit of a fiasco with content creators relatively recently with the Johnny Depp trial.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/02/johnny-...
here's an excerpt from the editor's note: The first published version of this story stated incorrectly that Internet influencers Alyte Mazeika and ThatUmbrellaGuy had been contacted for comment before publication. In fact, only Mazeika was asked, via Instagram. After the story was published, The Post continued to seek comment from Mazeika via social media and queried ThatUmbrellaGuy for the first time.
So did the original author simply lie? Did they forget that they never contacted these people? What was the punishment? Clicking on her profile it appears she still publishes regularly.
I just am not a fan of that "loophole." What's to stop FOX news from saying "we just heard all of this bad stuff about the voting machines?" What if its just the opinions of the hosts that the voting machines are compromised?
Not at all saying this is what happened. Just saying its kinda frustrating that _if_ you're smart about it and change your actions, you can still have the same effect of misleading millions of people but be entirely "OK."
As someone who's been closely following the Infowars/Free Speech Systems trials (watched all the depos, trial footage, etc.), all I can say is that I'm glad these families are finally getting justice. Even though I'm sure it'll be tied up in appeals for awhile (and reduced on appeal), hopefully it'll prevent future harassment campaigns against families when tragedies occur. And before anyone says "but why wasn't Jone…
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He caused his fans to harass families of murdered children for years, several had to move, some multiple times. All the while Alex Jones was raking in millions in cash off it.
shouldn’t the harassers be tried ?
Obviously, it's easier for the authorities to act first, then the families can sue.
The whole thing is senseless, the harassers are crazy people who believe that it was all "false flags" (for what? who knows), when these kids did die. Each harasser that is caught need to be shown the photos of these poor dead kids and forced to watch them, it will haunt them forever. As for Jones, he is a billionaire, this tragedy made is filthy rich, that's the only reason he exploited it. He probably never believed himself in these things.
> The largest fine paid by a banking executive responsible for the 2008 Financial Crisis was $67.5 million
A few tens of millions would have set straight almost everyone involved, the victims getting their money, Jones having to pay out of his pocket. But $1 billion means Jones will never be able to pay the sum, and, what's more, it will also silence him indefinitely. Which will make lots of his supporters think that was the intention all along, and in so doing making a mockery out of the act of justice.
[1] https://twitter.com/WSBChairman/status/1580289631714947072