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Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

signal.org

461–470 of 649 posts

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#461
post #265

> There are three big reasons why we’re removing SMS support for the Android app now: prioritizing security and privacy, ensuring people aren’t hit with unexpected messaging bills, and creating a clear and intelligible user experience for anyone sending messages on Signal. Pretty weak reasoning to me. Just do what Apple does and color sms messages some other color or whatever. Problem solved. This is gonna make me dr…

Signal already colours SMS and encrypted messages differently. Unecrypted (SMS) messages are grey; encrypted messages are blue.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#462
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The provide a fairly clear rationale beyond the ideological concern: users don't know/see who is on SMS and who isn't, and are being hit with high fees, and they are concerned that users may believe they have privacy when they do not. These are reasonable issues and concerns, so I don't follow why you would question all of the other decisions they make.

Couldn’t they just do something like have the sms messages in a different color than the rest? Similar to how iOS used blue for iMessage and green for texts? Signal could use an annoying red color for sms to make it even more clear.

Not sure if this is a joke given that Signal uses Blue for sms and Red for encrypted...

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need WhatsApp anyway, you’ll have several apps whatever you do.

>You need WhatsApp anyway, you’ll have several apps whatever you do. Do I? Not being snarky here, I just really don't understand why I need WhatsApp. No one I know uses WhatsApp to communicate with me. No business I deal with uses WhatsApp to communicate with me. In fact, I'm not sure what value WhatsApp provides as I've never used it. I'd appreciate it if you'd elucidate on your point. Mostly because if you're corre…

My understanding is that in many places outside the US it's near-universal. I've never used it myself either.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn’t they just do something like have the sms messages in a different color than the rest? Similar to how iOS used blue for iMessage and green for texts? Signal could use an annoying red color for sms to make it even more clear.

Not sure if this is a joke given that Signal uses Blue for sms and Red for encrypted...

I am on iOS and have never seen red. Only see blue. Color can be customized though.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#466

> The most important reason for us to remove SMS support from Android is that plaintext SMS messages are inherently insecure. This is an incredibly bad reason to remove SMS support. Sure, the fact "plaintext SMS messages are inherently insecure" is true, but the implication is not "remove SMS support". Most people are motivated strongly by convenience. Signal is convenient because of its use as a drop-in replacement…

> Wikipedia says that Moxie is still on the Signal Board of Directors, but I find it hard to believe that he would let something this crazy go through. IIRC I read (some years ago) that Moxie wasn't really convinced that SMS support should stay in Signal-Android, either.

He was definitely against the encryption-over-SMS feature of TextSecure as Android and smartphones more broadly grew in marketshare. He also wrote the blog post on how it doesn't matter if you have multiple messaging apps (or federation between them) because the notification area of your phone is the modern federation engine. I may be paraphrasing a bit heavily but the post is at [1].

I agree I can see him being at least OK with removing SMS but it seems at odds with what I felt was his overall view of "get the most people the most security we can" and by extension increasing the number of people using secure messaging services to normalize it so simply using encryption isn't seen as an outlier. The latter part is closer to moot now more than ever before with WhatsApp being E2E by default and Apple having huge marketshare in some markets with iMessage.

[1]: https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Telegram is absolutely the worst when it comes to privacy Really? Telegram never said that they don't store your messages on cloud, they said that they do not sell your data or share it with third parties for profit. Telegram has received a very good score on PrivacySpy ( https://privacyspy.org ), in fact better than any other messaging app. Telegram is good from a regular privacy perspective unless your threat mod…

> Really? Yes, really. You don't even argue against it. > pp. Telegram is good from a regular privacy perspective unless your threat model involves fearing cloud convenience. Telegram stores almost everything online without E2EE. > Not only have Matrix servers been hacked twice but matrix also leaks metadata. Even Signal leaks meta data. > If you're seriously suggesting true anonymity (not consenting privacy) then Ma…

> Yes, really. You don't even argue against

and yet I just did. Can we please stop confusing privacy and anonymity?

Your claims about Telegram being bad for privacy are baseless. Your concerns about messages is valid but it in no way compromises privacy because:

1. No telegram employee can read any messages. They use distributed key generation to encrypt data on servers which means no single server has access to decryption keys and all the servers are in different jurisdictions.

2. They do not sell message content data. If you can prove it, you can go ahead with a lawsuit and win a hefty sum.

3. They do not compromise security. They do not use E2EE by default. Their threat model and vision for a messaging platform is different than yours.

4. Telegram has never given message content for a court order. As mentioned in the privacy policy, they give out only the phone number and IP Address only in case of terrorism or child abuse and only when there's a court order from a country of a higher democratic index.

5. If you truly believe Telegram is bad for privacy even after all the evidence from FBI itself and PrivacySpy giving it a higher score than Signal, then please go ahead and sue them because surely they can't have a good privacy policy and bad privacy at the same time.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#468

> If you do use Signal as your default SMS app on Android, you will need to select a new default SMS app on your phone. If you want to keep them, you’ll also need to export your SMS messages from Signal into that new app. This messaging seems a little tone-deaf, given that there is no way to export SMS messages from Signal . Apparently it's possible, using a third-party piece of software, to decrypt your backups and…

They are enabling the ability to export SMS from signal now: https://community.signalusers.org/t/beta-feedback-for-the-up...

Confirmed. Turned on the beta program and exported ~1000 text messages over to Google Messages. Settings->Chats->SMS and MMS->Export. Involves changing the default app for SMS between Signal and Google Messages.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need WhatsApp anyway, you’ll have several apps whatever you do.

>You need WhatsApp anyway, you’ll have several apps whatever you do. Do I? Not being snarky here, I just really don't understand why I need WhatsApp. No one I know uses WhatsApp to communicate with me. No business I deal with uses WhatsApp to communicate with me. In fact, I'm not sure what value WhatsApp provides as I've never used it. I'd appreciate it if you'd elucidate on your point. Mostly because if you're corre…

I suppose it depends where you are. I’m in Europe.

Almost everyone I message with defaults to WhatsApp, or even insists on it. A few also have Signal or Facebook Messenger or iMessage.

SMS is only for notifications and such. Even some businesses default to WhatsApp.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#470
post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction, you dont need the privacy* Telegram is absolutely the worst when it comes to privacy, it has access to everything you do and say. If you want a master app, have a lot at matrix.org with bridges.

Bridges break end to end encryption.

Correct. But in the case of matrix you can host them in your home if you want, or maybe on your phone(they are still checking if this is possible or not)
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