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Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#61

Post by lokar »

doctor_eval wrote: post #32
budder wrote: post #16

Quoted post unavailable.

Jones made money from lying, but remains free of government interference. Nobody’s killing him or even putting him in jail. That’s the very definition of free speech. But free speech doesn’t mean speech without consequences. He’s being sued by the victims of what he said. It’s not the government doing this, it’s the people he hurt, and that’s the definition of “justice”.

And there is not even any criminal / gov restraint on his future speach. He can do it again, and they can sue for damage again.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#62

Post by probably_wrong »

belval wrote: post #5

So how were the damage calculated? I get that this guy is a nutjob but how can saying something is a hoax get you a 1B fine?

One of the lawyers made in the previous case what I consider an interesting argument: Alex Jones claimed under oath that his show reaches (off the top of my head) about a hundred million people. So the lawyer argued that Alex Jones should pay $1 for every person who heard him lie about Sandy Hook.

By this measure, if I intentionally harass someone on Twitter I'd have to pay the victim about $50 (on a good day). Since Alex Jones has a much larger following, he'd therefore have to pay more proportional to that.

I found that line of reasoning... well, reasonable. But then again, I'm not impartial here.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#63

Post by criddell »

budder wrote: post #35
sterlind wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jones stated that the Sandy Hook victims were crisis actors. he knew that to be false. it was an egregious case of defamation. knowingly spreading lies that damage someone's reputation is called slander, and it's not protected by the first amendment. neither is shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, or committing perjury, or falsifying your income taxes.

Quoted post unavailable.

Jones didn’t speculate, he asserted that the shooting was a hoax and the victims on tv were paid actors.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#65

Post by badwolf »

belval wrote: post #5

So how were the damage calculated? I get that this guy is a nutjob but how can saying something is a hoax get you a 1B fine?

He caused his fans to harass families of murdered children for years, several had to move, some multiple times. All the while Alex Jones was raking in millions in cash off it.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#66

Post by Natsu »

sterlind wrote: post #22
budder wrote: post #16

Quoted post unavailable.

Jones stated that the Sandy Hook victims were crisis actors. he knew that to be false. it was an egregious case of defamation. knowingly spreading lies that damage someone's reputation is called slander, and it's not protected by the first amendment. neither is shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, or committing perjury, or falsifying your income taxes.

> knowingly spreading lies that damage someone's reputation is called slander, and it's not protected by the first amendment

Only in spoken word is it slander. Written it'd be libel, whereas defamation covers both. The lies have to be about regarding factual matters, not just odious opinions.

> neither is shouting "fire" in a crowded theater,

That's a bad example from an overturned case that created an overly broad standard, which is why you shouldn't use that as an example of something not protected:

https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-ha...

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#67

Post by tptacek »

miked85 wrote: post #60
toss1 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He may not pay that amount, but he will spend the rest of his life bankrupt or spending most of his energy avoiding judgement, which is a not unreasonable fate for people who make a living lying, cheating, and stealing.

Quoted post unavailable.

The framers of the First Amendment understood and accepted the tort of defamation.

Re: Alex Jones told to pay $965M damages to Sandy Hook victims' families

#69

Post by lokar »

donatj wrote: post #43
lokar wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a system for that. Juries decide.

Juries are not mind readers. At best you can get to roughly what a rational person would have thought given said data, Alex Jones is not rational. It is literally unknowable.

In the context of needed a specific outcome in finite time, a legal process can never be certain of anything. We depend on process like juries to come to a good enough conclusion.
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