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Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

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Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#141

I think this is the first major layoff announcement at a big, established tech firm I've heard this year that is anywhere near this size. I mean, there have been loads of "couple hundred" employee layoffs, and certainly a lot of hiring slowdown/freezes, but again, haven't seen anything else near this big, and the layoffs previously seem to have been concentrated in unprofitable VC-funded companies. I know Tesla laid…

I don't know a lot of the details, but everything I've heard over the last couple of years indicated that AMD was absolutely crushing Intel. A recent laptop I purchased, as well as the last desktop I put together (~2 years ago) each have Ryzen chips. I forget the details but in addition to performance issues, didn't Intel CPUs also have some major security vulnerabilities? And was it that they were related to instruc…

Amd revenue 2021 -> $16.4 billion Intel 2021 -> $79.024 billion

But 2be fair amd is/was growing and intel is stagnant and lose market share right now but with a massive investments and going back on track with fabs process i would assume Intel soon start 2grow again (ofc after the end of the recession)

We have to remember AMD is making money out of TSMC advantage over Intel node which I assume won't last forever and if TSMC blunder even one node it can be catastrophic for AMD. Considering USA shift and focus on tech war with China Intel fabs can only grow faster or everything can crash.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#142
post #67

Isn't this just a culmination of nearly a decade of unforced errors and mismanaged strategy? I'm a complete outsider but I see a couple of fundamental huge misses by Intel over the past 10 or so years: 1) Completely missed the boat on mobile. Their ARM-competitive chips (Atom, etc.)... weren't. Missed on every measure from power to performance. Let Qualcomm and Samsung eat their lunch. 2) Missed too many ticks and re…

Completely missed the boat on mobile I think their main error was short-termism. They were addicted to high margin (workstation/server) devices. They had no interest in the low margins of mobile devices. They could not imagine how low-power devices would take over the world.

They missed the boat twice. Once with their sale of their ARM XScale branch, in 2006 for 600MM (such bad timing). Later with their blunders with Atom on mobile.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#143
post #41
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they are talking about the previous captain that pointed them at the iceberg.

Brian Krzanich was cancelled/fired for sleeping with a coworker, so the then-CFO Bob Swan was made CEO after Intel tried to hire "externally" for a year or so. After MBA'fying Intel for a couple of years, he left to a16z, a perfect place for people like him. Pat Gelsinger then joined, probably too late, to try to steer the ship back in the right direction. Intel as an organization is finished. (I worked at Intel for…

> Intel as an organization is finished

this will age poorly.

Intel is already fighting back strongly and really only had 1-2 iterations where they weren't in some ways the performance kings. They'll be back, fabbing their own chips, while AMD and others pay TSMC to make them, and intel will make massive profits.

Intel 12th and 13th gen competes with AMD on performance and price and its still using yet another 10nm finfet process while AMD is using TSMC's latest whatever.

none of this is indicative of a 'finished' organization. It's just not quick, because nothing in basic research and chip design is quick.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except that semiconductors are a national security issue at the moment. Maybe too big is a national security issue, too. Too big to fail is a real problem for any part of our economy.

Computer chips are a product that is only possible to produce at the largest scales. Everything, from the supply chain to design to manufacturing, is a globalized effort. You’ll never have small mom and pop fabs.

If everyone realizes it's a national security issue, that might change. Sure, US, EU and China have players in the industry and can attract fabs with a bit of incentive, but what if Russia or India or Pakistan or Brazil or Iran want to ensure a steady supply even under sanctions? Some of them might open up smaller fabs that might not be economically viable but are of strategic importance.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#146
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harder to fire, harder to hire, without fail.

If you have a strong welfare state, it should make it easier to fire. This is the case in Denmark, some countries offer incentives to lay staff off temporarily but, generally, it isn't the case (which is why you have unbelievable levels of unemployment in Europe).

My mistake was to assume such rules in other EU countries.

In Germany, there is a thing called "Kündigungsschutz"[1].

I am not sure about Ireland, but I assumed there are similar rulings.

So at least in Germany, it is not that easy, but possible.

1) http://www.rechtslexikon.net/d/kuendigungsschutz/kuendigungs...

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#147
Intel lived from the climb on moores law enforcing its standards, now that this is plateaued out, others have become the new intel setting standards into the performance relevant fields (arm for low energy compute (cellphones), nvidia for parallelization, etc.).

He who steals the fires from the gods, can force his standards upon men for the time the flames last.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except that semiconductors are a national security issue at the moment. Maybe too big is a national security issue, too. Too big to fail is a real problem for any part of our economy.

Computer chips are a product that is only possible to produce at the largest scales. Everything, from the supply chain to design to manufacturing, is a globalized effort. You’ll never have small mom and pop fabs.

You could fab chips in your basement. However your costs per chip would be in the tens of thousands each for basic chips. Large scales allows making those same chips for less than a dime each.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's great that they are essentially "recycled" when new, better companies come along and eat their lunch. Don't you have on the order of tens of thousands of dollars invested in Intel through retirement savings, though? When S&P 500 companies fail, your retirement savings become worthless. (Apple is really the one you want to watch out for, though!)

> Don't you have on the order of tens of thousands of dollars invested in Intel through retirement savings, though? Why is my fund in Intel but not in Apple? The whole point of choosing the index is so that you are diversified. You would only lose if Intel lost out to a foreign company, otherwise the demise of Intel is made palatable by the rise of Apple and AMD.

Even if intel loses to a foreign company, odds are that foreign company has been invested in my a domestic company I own so I'm still okay.

Re: Intel plans thousands of job cuts in face of PC slowdown

#150

Isn't this just a culmination of nearly a decade of unforced errors and mismanaged strategy? I'm a complete outsider but I see a couple of fundamental huge misses by Intel over the past 10 or so years: 1) Completely missed the boat on mobile. Their ARM-competitive chips (Atom, etc.)... weren't. Missed on every measure from power to performance. Let Qualcomm and Samsung eat their lunch. 2) Missed too many ticks and re…

> 1) Completely missed the boat on mobile. Their ARM-competitive chips (Atom, etc.)... weren't. Missed on every measure from power to performance. Let Qualcomm and Samsung eat their lunch.

As someone who worked related to those projects (PowerVR, which supplied graphics IP for some of those devices, on Android so other OSs may have a different view), I am completely not surprised they didn't go anywhere.

This was a good few years ago - I no longer work for PowerVR, and Intel seem to have completely given up on the market for some time. My memory isn't likely prefect, but I can give broad strokes.

It always felt like "Having" to go to PowerVR was an embarrassment for the teams, they kept trying to replace us with their internal GPU architecture, presumably completely fail to hit any power/performance targets, then last second call us again and try to rush everything through. Then, it feels like most of the time they drop the entire project before it made release anyway.

The teams that we worked with never felt high status - all the engineers we spoke to were either on that team because they couldn't move internally to something more prestigious due to some internal politics, or were actively in the process of changing teams. There were times where our internal engineering contacts changed monthly, if we had any engineering-level communication at all.

There's also some weird public claims about things around this - like PowerVR not providing driver source or similar, but that's simply not true. As the person packaging up the releases, they were only source releases, no obfuscation, with full documentation and build instructions.

The PowerVR driver model generally meant releasing a "reference" driver as source, with hooks for customers to hook up to their specific SoC implementation (think stuff like setting clocks, power management, bus endpoints etc.). The supplied package only had a couple of example backends. While one of those may have been an Intel chip, it was only minimally setup in order to make the graphics work for PowerVR testing. It was simply not possible to release a binary-only driver. But I've seen this claimed on a number of tech forums - often from people claiming to have knowledge from the Intel side, and if that's true and not exaggeration, I can only assume it's due to lack of communication between teams internal to Intel. I can assure you, someone in Intel had the full driver source.

Though WRT the internal communications, I sometimes saw this from the other side - we dealt with 2 Intel teams with different SoCs they intended to build, and it felt like 2 different companies. They never shared anything between them, almost as if they never spoke at all, and seemed resistant to changing that. I have no idea why, I guess it's just how their management structure is setup?

If you go through all that and end up with an actually good product, I feel it'll be almost luck rather than anything else.

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