Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon) • Hacker News Board

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#151

Post by erohead » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

calvinmorrison wrote: post #21

joemazerino wrote: post #14

I do not like this decision. Using Signal as a main SMS provider makes it easier for me to collect all of my messages in one place. Now I have to, YET AGAIN, download an SMS app for use while keeping Signal active. I'm glad privacy is becoming mainstream but dislike lowering the bar for adoption to where it profoundly affects users.

It makes me yearn for the days with Pidgin where I had IRC, Google Chat (XMPP back then), AOL and whatever else chat protocols all running through the same client. That's what is nice about signals implementation is it stands. It supports acting as the SMS default app on android and defaults to signal when it can.

This is why we are building https://www.beeper.com

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#152

Post by dodgerdan » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

monetus wrote: post #122

dodgerdan wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I would have agreed, but right now Signal is doing just fine taking users from WhatsApp (FB TOS changes + ads + social group analysis)and Telegram (sketchy non-e2ee, Russian owned, based in the middle east).

Weird, I am in the southeast U.S. and telegram is eating signal's lunch in the social networks here.

It’s a big pie, they’re also fairly different. And to be honest it’s only a matter of time before Telegram has a (public) security incident that drives much more people to E2EE messaging.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#153

Post by lucideer » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

This is bizarre.

If this were an in-depth announcement with a long and well-structured technical justification attached, I could understand. Though I suspect I'd likely disagree with the decision, I could probably accept it as a simple different of opinion if the arguments were evidently well-thought-through and considered.

This blog-post is so lightweight. There's no technical analysis. There's barely any justification. Yes we know SMS is insecure and yes - it seems plainly obvious that having them in the same UI could pose UX challenges & user confusion issues. So improve the UX and clarify the distinction. Did anyone in Signal consider the userbase or the advantages of this feature at all?

Definitely the end of my Signal usage anyway. It's my main SMS app: my primary motivator is SMS UX, the ability to securely message a tiny subset of my friends is a very nice but ultimately non-vital bonus. Having a separate app for those people isn't worth my while (they're on other platforms I use more).

The migration off it will be an unwelcome pain...

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#154

Post by tadfisher » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

mynameisvlad wrote: post #141

Melatonic wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Signal encrypts your regular texts? I thought it specifically did not do that?

They say “opportunistic” as in similar to how iMessage works. If you’re both on the platform, it’s encrypted but you still can communicate with everyone else from one app. That’s a major boost for those that might not particularly care about encryption to look for specific messaging apps, while still helping by building out the network slowly over time.

The downside is that they will opportunistically send your messages via Signal. If the recipient chooses to not have SIgnal installed any longer, then your messages go into a black hole.

This became much more of a problem for me after they rolled out their shitcoin; suddenly my techie friends were just not responding to messages, and Signal as my main SMS app was not falling back to SMS for these folks.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#155

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

branon wrote: post #134

SMS/MMS needs to die at this point. I am glad to see Signal take a hard line here even though it will cause some headache for users, of which I am one, though I do not use it to send outgoing SMS/MMS. These protocols are insecure, not private, and fundamentally incompatible with Signal's mission. Supporting them at all, while highly convenient, is a queer oxymoron for an app like Signal. We have to rip the bandaid of…

It needs to die when a federated replacement is available by default on all phones.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#156

Post by CommitSyn » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

daedalus_j wrote: post #149

I've been using Signal for a long time. I have repeatedly been unable to convince iOS users to use Signal because "I don't want another app". Android users have been much more willing to give it a shot. As an android user myself, I much prefer having SMS built in because I use the search feature often to look back through all my SMS/Signal chats. I also regularly forward an SMS message to a Signal user, or vice versa…

Yes, this is an idiotic decision that makes me question the decisions being made as a whole by Signal.

Does anyone have recommendations for a good default SMS app on Android?

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#157

Post by agloeregrets » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

lucideer wrote: post #153

This is bizarre. If this were an in-depth announcement with a long and well-structured technical justification attached, I could understand. Though I suspect I'd likely disagree with the decision, I could probably accept it as a simple different of opinion if the arguments were evidently well-thought-through and considered. This blog-post is so lightweight. There's no technical analysis. There's barely any justificat…

The answer is this: They dont want to add RCS support or spend the time to do it. It's all bullshit top to bottom.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#158

Post by hypeatei » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

Wow, I use this feature so I only have one messaging app to worry about.

It was seamless and I didn't see much of an issue with it.

I guess Signal is going to become that app that is only opened once a month or so. No more donations from me.

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#159

Post by stirfish » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 5:24 PM UTC

dodgerdan wrote: post #99

monetus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The network effect of signal not being a hub for SMS and e2ee will mean less people using e2ee, IMO.

A few years ago I would have agreed, but right now Signal is doing just fine taking users from WhatsApp (FB TOS changes + ads + social group analysis)and Telegram (sketchy non-e2ee, Russian owned, based in the middle east).

What people are concerned enough about a Terms of Service change to leave Whatsapp, but struggle with the unlocked icon next to "Insecure SMS" in Signal?

What people know that Telegram isn't end-to-end encrypted, but think SMS is?

Re: Removing SMS support from Signal Android (soon)

#160

Post by Kapura » Wed, Oct 12, 2022, 5:25 PM UTC

this is effectively going to remove signal as my messaging app of choice. i understand that messages that are not signal messages are not secure, but it is not going to be possible to convince anybody i know to download a special app if they want to talk to me. they will just send SMS, and I will have to respond via SMS, and it wont involve the signal app.

i hope they reconsider this decision; i have been using the product since textsecure and I would hate to stop doing so because they no longer support out-of-network communication.