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How Wine works 101

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Re: How Wine works 101

#171

Post by leshow »

thomasahle wrote: post #27
gerdesj wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS are profit motivated (by definition) and Wine is functionality motivated (again by definition). MS are currently hell bent on getting you onto a cloud subscription for Windows as a service (WAAS) because that is their current business model. The Wine project is hell bent on delivering functionality that you want and they think you might want. Wine is less about shuffling the start menu to the middle of the taskbar…

> MS are profit motivated (by definition) Not by definition, but by "Dodge v. Ford Motor Co." [1] the Michigan Supreme Court case that held "A business corporation is organized and carried on primarily for the profit of the stockholders." [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co .

Is it your contention that businesses only started being motivated by profit after this law got passed?

Re: How Wine works 101

#172

Post by thomasahle »

leshow wrote: post #171
thomasahle wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MS are profit motivated (by definition) Not by definition, but by "Dodge v. Ford Motor Co." [1] the Michigan Supreme Court case that held "A business corporation is organized and carried on primarily for the profit of the stockholders." [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co .

Is it your contention that businesses only started being motivated by profit after this law got passed?

I'm saying it's not "by definition" of a business that it's purely profit driven. You could imagine people starting businesses for other reasons.

Some people are not aware that this was not always taken for granted, but has been the topic of court cases in the past.

Re: How Wine works 101

#173

Post by CoolCold »

emptyparadise wrote: post #46
seba_dos1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the most recent attempt being WSL from Microsoft itself Worth noting that this only applies to WSL1; WSL2 works in a completely different way.

Still a bit sad that Microsoft went the hypervisor way with WSL2, rather than the Windows Subsystem way in WSL1. It makes perfect sense that they did, but I'm still a bit sad.

I'm curious why it makes you sad?

I was very glad when they announced WSL2 and while still using WSL1 for running socat for port forwarding, not missing it lack of further development much. Could be I'm missing some productivity stuff there?

Re: How Wine works 101

#174

Post by dontlaugh »

nescioquid wrote: post #152
dontlaugh wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They couldn't have kept it private easily, since Wine is licensed LGPL.

All the more reason for praise; usually that license is understood by corporations to mean "don't even think about it". Not only did Valve get what they needed out of it, the community benefited as well. Seems commendable to me.

They had no choice, building your own Wine takes years to decades, even for well funded companies.

The outcome is still good for the community, but it doesn't mean Valve did it out of the kindness of their hearts.

Re: How Wine works 101

#175

Post by mgarstecki »

dontlaugh wrote: post #174
nescioquid wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the more reason for praise; usually that license is understood by corporations to mean "don't even think about it". Not only did Valve get what they needed out of it, the community benefited as well. Seems commendable to me.

They had no choice, building your own Wine takes years to decades, even for well funded companies. The outcome is still good for the community, but it doesn't mean Valve did it out of the kindness of their hearts.

They still went all in, built a nice community around Proton itself, documented it and supported forks, etc.

Re: How Wine works 101

#176

Post by BlueTemplar »

anthk wrote: post #131
BlueTemplar wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, 3D games using DirectX 8- are a shitshow on Windows Vista+...

Direct Draw games can be slow as hell unless you use a wined3d wrapper.

Interesting, maybe I'll be able to play Space Empires 5 again ?!

Any pointers towards how to use this wrapper ?

Re: How Wine works 101

#177

Post by BlueTemplar »

haunter wrote: post #6

What I'm curious about (and probably there are some good write ups about this somewhere) that how come modern Linux and modern Wine is better to run old Windows applications than modern Windows (7 to some extent but mostly 10&11). Did MS "intentionally" "left behind" certain APIs and system calls to sacrifice it for some greater good? Like I use Windows every day and have no problems at all. And I use Linux every day…

I'm surprised that you would include Vista programs having trouble being run on Windows 10 : any examples ?

Re: How Wine works 101

#178

Post by andrepd »

mgarstecki wrote: post #175
dontlaugh wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had no choice, building your own Wine takes years to decades, even for well funded companies. The outcome is still good for the community, but it doesn't mean Valve did it out of the kindness of their hearts.

They still went all in, built a nice community around Proton itself, documented it and supported forks, etc.

Yes, because their business profited from that. It's an example in favour of GPL licenses: the interests of the public and of a for-profit venture aligned to produce value for both.

Re: How Wine works 101

#179

Post by collinmanderson »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #168
Arainach wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old games require being run as Administrator. In addition, user/kernel isn't the important security boundary you think it is. My tax returns, my pictures, my passwords, all of the data I actually care about is stored in files accessible in user space.

> Old games require being run as Administrator. Not really, search for UAC virtualization. > My tax returns, my pictures, my passwords, all of the data I actually care about is stored in files accessible in user space. So are the passwords of everyone logging in to this very website (stored in user space). I think you are confusing user/privilege separation with kernel-userspace separation. You have not yet made a po…

> How can distributing a user-space shared library, no matter how fully loaded with ancient security holes, decrease the amount of security of your system?

They probably want to put pressure on publishers to use newer libraries that don’t need administrative permission, so hopefully eventually getting a version of the program that doesn’t need admin. Encouraging better security hygiene.

I agree that user-space compromise is still really really really bad.

Re: How Wine works 101

#180

Post by anthk »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #176
anthk wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Direct Draw games can be slow as hell unless you use a wined3d wrapper.

Interesting, maybe I'll be able to play Space Empires 5 again ?! Any pointers towards how to use this wrapper ?

https://fdossena.com/?p=wined3d/index.frag
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