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How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

quantamagazine.org

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Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#121

Post by pexabit »

CodeSgt wrote: post #27
pexabit wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well secure and rather indisputably valid elections are a solved problem, and many countries manage it. Identified electors cast ballots on paper counted under recorded and public observation. (I think a scantron would be fine, too). It is just that we choose not to do this. A provably convincing election isn’t actually some hard, unsolved problem. (And yes- if you mention zero knowledge proofs in your story of why t…

Can you name a country where an actually observably valid election takes place? And by this I mean an election where, somehow, an individual would be able to see their individual ballot make it from wherever they cast it, to the counter, and could see how their specific ballot impacted/didn't impact the broader vote, and where (again, somehow) there was proof that no artificial or false votes were cast in the name of…

Taiwan and France. Probably most countries: since it is how you would design an election in the obvious way.

> A truly observably fair election is practically impossible if you mean to have any significant number of voters.

Just broadcast the counting live.

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#122

Post by rullelito »

bockchain wrote: post #38

> How to prove you know a secret without giving it away This is the best use case for blockchain. Put the secret on the blockchain and show others that transaction. Since it's on blockchain, no one can deny your claim about knowing the secret. This is why blockchain was invented. Before blockchain, I was miserable. There was no way for me to prove to my girlfriends that I knew a secret, without telling the secret. No…

I guess SHA1 isn't cool anymore?

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#123

Post by pexabit »

paganel wrote: post #97
pexabit wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well secure and rather indisputably valid elections are a solved problem, and many countries manage it. Identified electors cast ballots on paper counted under recorded and public observation. (I think a scantron would be fine, too). It is just that we choose not to do this. A provably convincing election isn’t actually some hard, unsolved problem. (And yes- if you mention zero knowledge proofs in your story of why t…

> Identified electors How do you reliably identify them without an ID card (which, as I understand it, the US doesn't have), or without an election-related "ID card" (which is pretty much the same thing)? Trying to use SSNs will of course result in economically disadvantaged people having no right to vote, the same goes, more or less, if trying to rely on driver's licenses.

The second paragraph is an assertion. And urban registration drives are heavily funded. Most people who do not vote do not vote because they do not want to vote.

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#124

Post by pexabit »

HWR_14 wrote: post #75
pexabit wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well secure and rather indisputably valid elections are a solved problem, and many countries manage it. Identified electors cast ballots on paper counted under recorded and public observation. (I think a scantron would be fine, too). It is just that we choose not to do this. A provably convincing election isn’t actually some hard, unsolved problem. (And yes- if you mention zero knowledge proofs in your story of why t…

> Identified electors cast ballots on paper counted under recorded and public observation. You mean that the vote is tied to the voter, so everyone can tell X voted for Y? That sounds horrible. If you mean that paper votes are simply counted under recorded observation (and observation by representatives of all parties) I would point out that didn't help in the US.

Paper ballots weren’t cast and counted under general public observation in the US.

And I mean a ballot stub that is separated at the time it is cast is tied to a voter.

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#125

Post by pexabit »

jimbob45 wrote: post #41
pexabit wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think a scantron machine not connected to the Internet would sow distrust. We have seen them in our high schools. And Adversarial observers can validate the results on test samples quite easily. Which raises the question- why do we use the really awkward, blackbox and sometimes networked machines that we do, manufactured by weird companies rather than whoever makes scantron machines or whatever? And this isn’…

Why do we use the really awkward, blackbox and sometimes networked machines that we do, manufactured by weird companies rather than whoever makes scantron machines or whatever? Because they’re cheap, states have to fund their own elections, and no governor will ever fund an election over schools or infrastructure. The real question is why elections are not federally funded. The answer is that states are afraid electi…

How much does a scantron machine cost?

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#126

Post by defrost »

googlryas wrote: post #18
defrost wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"United States" is a weird description of the current situation within central north america.

They're extremely united. In fact, I can cross over a dozen state borders per day and not even really realize I did so.

No post body was provided.

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#127

Post by dhartmei »

toolslive wrote: post #80

Best intro paper on the subject (IMNSHO) How to Explain Zero-Knowledge Protocols to Your Children https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221355016_How_to_Ex...

At the beginning, where the hidden passage is explained, isn't there a "race condition", where Ali Baba would eventually (across 40 repetitions) run into the thief? The thief picks one branch, Ali Baba the other. The thief uses the passage, then walks right into Ali Baba?

I don't understand how the thief can be sure to never walk into Ali Baba coming down the other path at some time.

What am I missing?

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#128

Post by psychoslave »

unnouinceput wrote: post #71
ranger_danger wrote: post #30

"How do you let go of a secret without telling the wrong person? You tell everyone at once."

Then that's not a secret anymore.

You just enlarged the number of people in the confidence. Most people in the universe will still be completely uninformed about it, even if you spent tremendous resources on making it readily publicly available. Just considering human beings, most people are already dead anyway.

https://www.prb.org/articles/how-many-people-have-ever-lived...

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#129

Post by rcxdude »

DreamFlasher wrote: post #96
sandos wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to play a social deduction game on IRC, and this was one method to reveal things without revealing them.... but it was too powerful so was banned sort of.

Can you elaborate? Where can we find more about this game?

Sounds like a regular game of mafia or werewolves, which basically just requires someone to run it and some means of communication, whether it be in-person, IRC, forum, or some other chat application (there are more 'formal' versions of it in the form of board games or video games, like town of salem, as well).

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#130

Post by Archelaos »

unnouinceput wrote: post #56
ALittleLight wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of fixing a bug that causes your problem but then you discover the problem persists after the fix and that you actually had two independent bugs causing the same problem.

Erm, if you do a fix and the problem still exists then how is that a fix? For example, if I have a number box and I punch letters in it and the problem is error is still poping up, then my fix is not a fix, is it? Regardless of how many bugs I have that cause the problem, a fix, in my opinion, is the sum of all those bugs going away.

> if you do a fix and the problem still exists then how is that a fix?

The problem was fixed after the two bugs were fixed:

  fix(problem)
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