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How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

quantamagazine.org

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Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#61

Post by galaxyLogic »

unnouinceput wrote: post #56
ALittleLight wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of fixing a bug that causes your problem but then you discover the problem persists after the fix and that you actually had two independent bugs causing the same problem.

Erm, if you do a fix and the problem still exists then how is that a fix? For example, if I have a number box and I punch letters in it and the problem is error is still poping up, then my fix is not a fix, is it? Regardless of how many bugs I have that cause the problem, a fix, in my opinion, is the sum of all those bugs going away.

I see your point which is semantically valid. But there is something more to it. Consider it from the other direction: You can introduce a bug by making some modification to the code. Then you add another modification which produces the same erroneous behavior. Either one alone would be enough to cause the problem. And two of them together does not cause any more problems than each of them alone.

But now to "fix" the problem you have to undo both of your modifications. You have 2 bugs and you have to "fix" them both. "Fix a bug" as in "Kill a bug".

So "Fix a bug" can mean "remove a cause of the problem". Or it can mean "remove the problem".

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#62

Post by pc86 »

avmich wrote: post #29
pexabit wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well secure and rather indisputably valid elections are a solved problem, and many countries manage it. Identified electors cast ballots on paper counted under recorded and public observation. (I think a scantron would be fine, too). It is just that we choose not to do this. A provably convincing election isn’t actually some hard, unsolved problem. (And yes- if you mention zero knowledge proofs in your story of why t…

> Well secure and rather indisputably valid elections are a solved problem In some countries people would like to have undisputably valid elections, but can't, so I wouldn't call this a solved problem.

They're saying the mechanism by which you have a provably valid election is solved, not that every country that has a populace that wants that has it.

But I have a feeling you knew that already.

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#63

Post by scifibestfi »

getcrunk wrote: post #51
bockchain wrote: post #38

> How to prove you know a secret without giving it away This is the best use case for blockchain. Put the secret on the blockchain and show others that transaction. Since it's on blockchain, no one can deny your claim about knowing the secret. This is why blockchain was invented. Before blockchain, I was miserable. There was no way for me to prove to my girlfriends that I knew a secret, without telling the secret. No…

I bet $1000 that this is an ai bot. Hn should have a bot that bans bots

How can you tell with that level of confidence?

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#64

Post by nlitened »

bockchain wrote: post #38

> How to prove you know a secret without giving it away This is the best use case for blockchain. Put the secret on the blockchain and show others that transaction. Since it's on blockchain, no one can deny your claim about knowing the secret. This is why blockchain was invented. Before blockchain, I was miserable. There was no way for me to prove to my girlfriends that I knew a secret, without telling the secret. No…

> Before blockchain, I was miserable. There was no way for me to prove to my girlfriends that I knew a secret, without telling the secret. Now with blockchain, ...

I thought the joke would continue that now with blockchain, I don't have a girlfriend anymore.

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#65

Post by guillaume8375 »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #61
unnouinceput wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erm, if you do a fix and the problem still exists then how is that a fix? For example, if I have a number box and I punch letters in it and the problem is error is still poping up, then my fix is not a fix, is it? Regardless of how many bugs I have that cause the problem, a fix, in my opinion, is the sum of all those bugs going away.

I see your point which is semantically valid. But there is something more to it. Consider it from the other direction: You can introduce a bug by making some modification to the code. Then you add another modification which produces the same erroneous behavior. Either one alone would be enough to cause the problem. And two of them together does not cause any more problems than each of them alone. But now to "fix" the…

Your answer reminds me of “gettiers” (http://jsomers.net/blog/gettiers).

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#66

Post by grenoire »

nlitened wrote: post #64
bockchain wrote: post #38

> How to prove you know a secret without giving it away This is the best use case for blockchain. Put the secret on the blockchain and show others that transaction. Since it's on blockchain, no one can deny your claim about knowing the secret. This is why blockchain was invented. Before blockchain, I was miserable. There was no way for me to prove to my girlfriends that I knew a secret, without telling the secret. No…

> Before blockchain, I was miserable. There was no way for me to prove to my girlfriends that I knew a secret, without telling the secret. Now with blockchain, ... I thought the joke would continue that now with blockchain, I don't have a girlfriend anymore.

Fixed the bug, boss!

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#67

Post by nscalf »

scifibestfi wrote: post #63
getcrunk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet $1000 that this is an ai bot. Hn should have a bot that bans bots

How can you tell with that level of confidence?

He put it on the blockchain to prove he knows the secret. Can’t be wrong, it’s immutable.

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#69

Post by unnouinceput »

tptacek wrote: post #36
adastra22 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For explaining the concepts, maybe. Please don’t implement any protocols from that book!

It's pretty bad on the concepts, too. There are good books on the concepts that won't blow your head off; two of them are JP Aumasson's "Serious Cryptography" and David Wong's "Real World Cryptography".

Can you give an example of such a bad concept explained in Applied Cryptography vs Serious Cryptography?

Because, out of curiosity, I just downloaded both books, skimmed on both of them (having read in the past Applied Cryptography it took me less time for it of course) through first chapters (classic crypto, randomness and RSA chapters) and found that they are very similar.

So, again, do you have a proof of your statement or are you just another Schneier hater?

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#70

Post by HideousKojima »

titzer wrote: post #25
hackerlight wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why we should remove all voting machines. Not because they're unsafe, but because they're an attack vector for cynical actors to sow distrust. There's no way the small efficiency gain from automation is worth that cost.

I'm not sure that's the solution. The 2020 election cycle saw political figures casting doubt on paper mail-in ballots.

It's the mail-in part that caused doubt moreso than the paper part.
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