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How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

quantamagazine.org

21–30 of 171 posts

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#21
post #8

Side topic, but why does something relatively respectable like Quanta Magazine need a reading progress bar? These odd decisions truly amaze me sometimes.

Why does the web need half the chaff it has these days? That's why I love YComb, it's a simple text site. Marketing ruined the Internet.

Checkout Healthline today. Then do WaybackMachine of Healtine in like 2009.

It is shocking

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#22
If interested in playing around with zero-knowledge proofs, recently was at a workshop with Ying Tong who has an exercise (and long associated slide deck) to walk through them using halo2 ( https://electriccoin.co/blog/explaining-halo-2/ ) to build your own zero knowledge proof https://github.com/therealyingtong/halo2-hope

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#23
post #5
post #4

zero-knowledge proof is very nice... and could be used to prove election results: https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/466.pdf

As demonstrated in central north america recently the real challenge isn't in proving election results .. it's in the greater social challenge of propagating belief and trust in the results in the face of concerted efforts to widely undermine such. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

IIRC, Hillary was among a group claiming "stolen elections" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUqxX0YAafg and that her opponent was an illegitimate president... so, you know, it's not a unique claim. Also miss Abrams seems to make similar claims. These claims happen a bit in local elections.

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#24
post #4

zero-knowledge proof is very nice... and could be used to prove election results: https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/466.pdf

In the paper the authors describe using a blockchain to store the results. The blockchain is only mined in private, by an administrator, where voter id information is removed after the election. What is the benefit of a blockchain over a table (csv, JSON, database, excel etc) to store the data? Blockchains application is when you need to reach shared consensus without trust. We’re not in this situation that the paper describes.

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#25
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As demonstrated in central north america recently the real challenge isn't in proving election results .. it's in the greater social challenge of propagating belief and trust in the results in the face of concerted efforts to widely undermine such. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

That's why we should remove all voting machines. Not because they're unsafe, but because they're an attack vector for cynical actors to sow distrust. There's no way the small efficiency gain from automation is worth that cost.

I'm not sure that's the solution. The 2020 election cycle saw political figures casting doubt on paper mail-in ballots.

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#26
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the web need half the chaff it has these days? That's why I love YComb, it's a simple text site. Marketing ruined the Internet.

Checkout Healthline today. Then do WaybackMachine of Healtine in like 2009. It is shocking

Thanks iPad

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#27
post #12
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As demonstrated in central north america recently the real challenge isn't in proving election results .. it's in the greater social challenge of propagating belief and trust in the results in the face of concerted efforts to widely undermine such. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

Well secure and rather indisputably valid elections are a solved problem, and many countries manage it. Identified electors cast ballots on paper counted under recorded and public observation. (I think a scantron would be fine, too). It is just that we choose not to do this. A provably convincing election isn’t actually some hard, unsolved problem. (And yes- if you mention zero knowledge proofs in your story of why t…

Can you name a country where an actually observably valid election takes place?

And by this I mean an election where, somehow, an individual would be able to see their individual ballot make it from wherever they cast it, to the counter, and could see how their specific ballot impacted/didn't impact the broader vote, and where (again, somehow) there was proof that no artificial or false votes were cast in the name of citizens who either don't exist or didn't participate.

Even if there was a livestrem of the vote counting, that would mean nothing if we didn't see every step of transportation for every single vote from the ballot box to the counters office.

A truly observably fair election is practically impossible if you mean to have any significant number of voters.

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#28
post #23
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As demonstrated in central north america recently the real challenge isn't in proving election results .. it's in the greater social challenge of propagating belief and trust in the results in the face of concerted efforts to widely undermine such. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

IIRC, Hillary was among a group claiming "stolen elections" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUqxX0YAafg and that her opponent was an illegitimate president... so, you know, it's not a unique claim. Also miss Abrams seems to make similar claims. These claims happen a bit in local elections.

There’s a much longer and “prouder” tradition of Americans claiming elections were rigged stretching all the way back to when it was true. Bush v Gore is another recent example but older folks will probably remember claims about Kennedy’s election and Nixon’s in ‘60. Andrew Jackson is somewhat credibility accused. And that’s just presidential elections off the top of my head.

Re: How to prove you know a secret without giving it away

#29
post #12
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As demonstrated in central north america recently the real challenge isn't in proving election results .. it's in the greater social challenge of propagating belief and trust in the results in the face of concerted efforts to widely undermine such. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

Well secure and rather indisputably valid elections are a solved problem, and many countries manage it. Identified electors cast ballots on paper counted under recorded and public observation. (I think a scantron would be fine, too). It is just that we choose not to do this. A provably convincing election isn’t actually some hard, unsolved problem. (And yes- if you mention zero knowledge proofs in your story of why t…

> Well secure and rather indisputably valid elections are a solved problem

In some countries people would like to have undisputably valid elections, but can't, so I wouldn't call this a solved problem.

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