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Do central banks’ mounting losses actually matter?

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Re: Do central banks’ mounting losses actually matter?

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't there a simple freaking flowchart somewhere.

Because it's so simple it doesn't need one: Bank A sends the central bank a real asset worth $1 million (say, a 10 year government bond). The central bank says "you have a balance with us of $1 million now", and updates their SQL database. "Everyone" agrees the balance with the central bank has real value. Everyone = creditors of the bank, regulators of the bank, accounting standards bodies, auditors, the SEC, trade…

OK but what can they do with this balance

Re: Do central banks’ mounting losses actually matter?

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's so simple it doesn't need one: Bank A sends the central bank a real asset worth $1 million (say, a 10 year government bond). The central bank says "you have a balance with us of $1 million now", and updates their SQL database. "Everyone" agrees the balance with the central bank has real value. Everyone = creditors of the bank, regulators of the bank, accounting standards bodies, auditors, the SEC, trade…

OK but what can they do with this balance

Settle payments with other banks is the obvious one - when you send money from Wells Fargo to Chase for example, they settle it behind the scenes by asking the fed to increase Wells balance and decrease Chase's.

They can also use it to buy securities from the Fed, to buy securities from other banks, to settle derivatives contracts and margin calls around them.

Re: Do central banks’ mounting losses actually matter?

#223
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with parent. There are so many. Here's a recent example where almost every comment in the thread is so off the mark as to be unrecognizable for the comments section of your local TV news station. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33028673

The top comments seem pretty reasonable there. Did you have a specific one in mind?

Basically every comment trying to make a political statement and those that are implying that investment managers made decisions out of greed and avarice.

Re: Do central banks’ mounting losses actually matter?

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The business cycle is a natural phenomenon that predates central banks controlling the money supply, and would still occur if there was a fixed monetary base. As banks loaned more and less, and people spent faster and slower through the business cycle, the total amount of bank money and the velocity it was spent at would grow and contract. Prices would therefore be unstable, because prices follow changes in the money…

First, the money supply and price of money has been manipulated since before central banks existed. I don’t exactly understand your thesis, because, of course the federal reserve existing more than a decade before the Great Depression and is a primary driver for the credit expansion that caused the Great Depression to be so large and long lasting. Artificial manipulation, as I described above, is what causes the natu…

While I don't think I want to delve too into the matter, arguably, the Federal Reserve NOT holding more control over the amount of money flooding into the system through repeated rehypothecation of securities as the roaring 20s saw banks and brokerages happy to loan out more and more money had a lot to do with its occurrence in the first place. Prior to the Securities Act of 1933, and later Regulations T, U, and X (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_T), brokerages and banks had a lot more leeway in determining their own reserves. Which ultimately, particularly in a booming securities market, means that they were largely unregulated when it came to raising the total amount of money in circulation at least in nominal terms. The aforementioned regulations took great strides in curtailing this excessive power and brought margin rates and reserve requirements under the domain of the Federal Reserve as tools for manipulating the cost and flow of money toward serving their dual mandate.

If there is a particular institution that is exacerbating the peaks and troughs of the business cycle, it is credit itself. Going back a few centuries, in Europe anyway, the usury laws used to forbid (Christians anyway) from lending money at interest, being seen as effectively a form of theft (think of laws limiting loan sharks now). The business cycle is tied right back to the credit cycle (to the extent that the words are used almost interchangeably), and if you remove the existence of credit, you remove much of the boom and bust cycle that goes with it. This said, it's worth determining if this is REALLY what you want, as prior to the availability of credit, the ability to start businesses and innovate was significantly reduced, and generally, only available to the particularly wealthy.

Central banking was just a means of trying to bring some order to the chaos that all of this credit flowing around was having. Sometimes it seems to work well; other times, it feels like the cure may be worse than the disease. Either way, it's worth knowing about the beast its there to attempt to cage.

Re: Do central banks’ mounting losses actually matter?

#225
post #138
post #126

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"lay people": It looks a lot like you're printing money and handing it out to your wealthy buddies. "experts": This matter is too complex and jargon-filled for you to take part in the debate. "lay people": Explain again why we have an institution that alternates between handouts to asset owners and crashing the economy? I think prices going up exponentially with time might be bad for my welfare! "experts": Those craz…

> printing money and handing it out to your wealthy buddies. So much confusion is caused by the inability to distinguish between "gift" and "loan". The problem with allowing banks to hard-fail is that imposes real, huge costs on customers even if the deposits are 100% covered, because the failover is not instant and you end up with money locked up for a period and are unable to make your own payments. > prices going…

Gift vs Loan really depends a lot on Time Value. If the loan carries interest at a rate that is lower than the return earned on the loaned value, it's basically a gift of sorts, even if not quite in the manner a lay person may understand it (a net gift, if you will (and if the interest is higher than it's capable of yielding as a return, it's a trap!). At the end of the day though, the cycle of lending money at interest in a manner externalizes the cost to the society at large, who is left to cope with an expanded money supply (which eventually can be measured as inflation), while meanwhile the party loaning the money out sees a return in the form of interest, and the party taking out the loan sees the return in the form of access to capital and a net gain.

The Federal Reserve can be thought of as there to balance out the cost of this arrangement (unending inflation) with the benefits it provides (expanded access to capital by those who would otherwise perhaps never be able to raise the funds -- hard to run a business when you don't have the "machinery" that makes it go).

It turns out, this is really hard. At the end of the day though, if they weren't there "picking winners" as it sometimes appears they're doing, we'd still have winners being picked, as we did under the old gold backed currencies in the past, but we'd also get to contend with the effects of banks going bust from failing to adequately navigate the markets, which would be further made turbulent by a lack of coordination between their interest rates being haphazardly determined. Presumably, those with the most money and clarity would be the only ones left after an epic game of Monopoly, and we'd be left with...a central bank, much like we have today.

Re: Do central banks’ mounting losses actually matter?

#226
post #193
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case it doesn't matter if you're a tax payer though. Central bankers have no power to levy taxes, they manipulate the value of the currency itself by altering rates and bond market interventions.

> In this case it doesn't matter if you're a tax payer though. They don't explain who is going to be paying in advance. Usually it is a surprise. The approach is to wait for the crisis to come to a head then make a snap decision if it is the government that needs to settle things. There are literal trillions of dollars floating about. Someone is fronting up real resources, somewhere. Who? What? These are important qu…

Thankfully, it is not ONLY taxpayers, but rather, all market participants that make use of the US dollar. Which, considering it is the reserve currency of the world, is a lot more than simply US taxpayers. Admittedly, the Federal Reserve does purchase primarily securities that do end up in one form or other as the obligation of the US Government (either treasury securities, or agency MBS's), but by and large, they don't seem to take much issue with payment in the form of principle and interest through issuance of further debt. For an illustration of this in action, see here: https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_recenttren....

Ultimately, does this mean the taxpayer is getting a higher and higher national debt? Sure. But if it's never something being paid off, then the cost of this arrangement ultimately falls to those faced with an ever larger growing money supply, which, again, is the population of Earth. Though, a curious thing happened this year, when Russia was kicked off of SWIFT, and an alliance of those willing to do business with them outside of the dollar markets started to emerge, which does threaten to throw quite a bit of turbulence if suddenly the percentage of the globe we're spreading out the cost of inflation to shrinks drastically. We've fought wars to protect the dollar's reserve status before (just ask Gaddhafi), and it does seem that sooner or later there'll come a breaking point -- but this is hard to say for sure, as we are ultimately in uncharted territory.

Basically, like it or not, most of the rest of the world is wrapped up enough in this that the taxpayers can hardly be said to be alone, except for those who seem to be in the process of crafting lifeboats for themselves. Whether that's a consolation to anyone is a question I leave up to you to decide for yourself.

Re: Do central banks’ mounting losses actually matter?

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange to recommend Mankiw, and Modern Monetary Theory (a discredited, non-mainstream economic concept that Mankiw wrote against) in the same sentence. MMT is practically pseudoscience, makes unclear claims, claims a foundation in mainstream economics but makes completely wild logical leaps when it comes to policy recommendations, and it's promoted by politicians more than real economists.

Well, it seems half the people criticising MMT say it's a vacuous re-statement of how things already work, and the other half say it's wrong and discredited :p. What does it actually advocate that has been discredited? I get the impression MMTers want to erase the distinction between central banks and the government, and basically run everything with fiscal policy, letting the government decide how big its deficits a…

Allowing elected officials to control the money supply is a bit like allowing children the decision to determine how much candy they can eat. These are people who have shown time and again willingness to take short term gains that come with long term expenses because of the fact that ultimately it'll be their successor's problem (who often is a member of the other party anyway). The whole point of the Fed is to attempt to have an adult in the room that can decide it's time to put the bag of candy back in the cabinet, or bring it out when it's use as a motivator is helpful in ramping up an otherwise sluggish economy.

At the end of the day, the premise that infinitely growing debt isn't the end of the world is probably sound, provided that its rate of growth is kept in check. Avoiding a situation where the money supply goes exponential is crucial. Unfortunately... https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2SL looks a lot like some charts I remember from 8th grade algebra. That we likely just need to fix the trajectory rather than actually bring down the money supply should offer some solace, but those used to the sugar high of the last decade or so are likely in for a rude awakening over the next few years -- and whether that awakening is enough to rip apart civil society may ultimately be something that remains to be seen.

Re: Do central banks’ mounting losses actually matter?

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, BlackRock specializes in closing failed banks. That's why the US gov't gave them all the bad banks from 2007 and also why they are a huge company. They'll only get larger at this point.

Do you have a citation for this? My understanding is small community banks sold by the FDIC to larger banks or their depositors paid out directly. [0] Larger banks - WaMu for instance - were put under the purview of the Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS) and their customers assets and certain liabilities sold. In WaMu's case it was to JPMorgan. [1] [0] https://www.fdic.gov/consumers/banking/facts/payment.html [1] htt…

https://thestrategystory.com/2020/09/18/blackrock-shadow-ban...

Re: Do central banks’ mounting losses actually matter?

#229
post #188
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So much confusion is caused by the inability to distinguish between "gift" and "loan". QE4 was the better part of a trillion dollars. That much money moves through a system that is too complex and jargon filled for the layman to understand, and you want them to believe that there is nothing to see here? 1. The people on the other side of the bad loan, who aren't expected to pay back the money, are making bank by ta…

> 1. The people on the other side of the bad loan, who aren't expected to pay back the money, are making bank by taking on silly levels of risk and then benefiting from the bailouts Which people? Which loans? Please please be specific. > These loans aren't available to ordinary people or businesses because the terms would obviously put any individual far too far ahead Again, which loans? What are the collateralizatio…

> That's "inflation targeting at 0%"

So when you think a random walk around 0, you think of an ever-increasing positive trend? Because that isn't what a random walk looks like.

> And you can't avoid external shocks: if you embargo Russian gas, prices are going to go up, and that's inflation regardless of money supply issues.

Later on it would go down. It is a commodity market, and trade will normalise.

The issue here isn't that prices rise and fall, it is that the people who make prices rise continuously are forcing everyone to use their system. They shouldn't do that. And if there were any choices, it'd be a rare bird indeed who voluntarily signs up for a system where prices always trend up.

> Quite hard to find a safer asset, though.

I mean, maybe I've badly misunderstood what a "margin call" means, but my feeling on this one is it suggests margin is involved. It is not a conservative financial decision if they involve buying safe assets for someone's retirement on margin, because they aren't safe assets any more.

Bond prices go down and I'm at no risk whatsoever of being sent bankrupt by that, because I'm not stupid enough to start using debt in my retirement savings. To claim they're buying "safe assets" while simultaneously they are in need of assistance due to playing around in the gilt market derivatives is an impressive take.

> Which people? Which loans? Please please be specific.

When someone (A) lends money to another person (B), that person becomes a counterparty. So if B goes bankrupt, A loses money. If B is about to go bankrupt, gets big loans from a central bank then pays back A, A has effectively gotten a handout. What should happen is A loses money for taking on a risky gamble.

> Again, which loans? What are the collateralization rules for them? What are the interest rates? Do you think an individual and a bank have the same credit score?

Yeah, good point, that part doesn't actually make any sense. I was thinking about QE1 when I wrote that, but the issue there wasn't really any deals getting done as much as the general money printing.

> Please distinguish between "default" and "rollover". There is nothing wrong with rollover unless the risk has changed?

There absolutely is something wrong with rollover. If entities can perpetually roll over their debt, and the entity issuing the debt is a government entity or bankrolled by a government entity - ie, risk insensitive and unable to go bankrupt because of policy - then all the usual economic controls to make sure the money is well spent are removed.

> Example of "wasting"?

If a banking entity goes bankrupt due to enormous losses it has effectively wasted all the money it was given. Which is fine, happens from time to time, but the people responsible shouldn't get a chance to try again because the regulators like them.

> ...if you just allege "crime"...

Sorry, I missed a step here. What crime are you talking about? I don't think anything criminal is happening.

Re: Do central banks’ mounting losses actually matter?

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Central planning of housing created those lovely soviet style "housing" block developments while the beautiful inner cities of eastern europe rotted away. I can’t talk about the other points but as an East European I’d take those blocks any day vs the unregulated apartments being built today with 0 green space and where you hear your neighbors taking a dump 3 floors away from you.

Sorry, but I don't think you know what you are talking about. I actually come from an ex eastern block country (and was born under communism) and I can tell you that nobody prefers soviet style appartments to what's available today.

Hilarious. I live in Eastern Europe in an ex eastern block country, was born under communism and I can tell you there is not way you can convince me I don't know what I am talking about. Honestly this is a bit insulting lol.
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