Live data from Hacker News

What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

cspicenter.com

461–470 of 972 posts

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#461
I'm hoping one day everyone wakes up and realises that the emperor has no clothes. Unfortunately DI is a virtue status game. It's easier to play that than delivering real value in your job. It's pretty much a religion with its own dogmas and lingo.

For more fresh madness see what the the UKs financial conduct authority is proposing:

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/fca-finalises-pro...

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#462
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a nice way to excuse your racism. A lot of people use this perverted logic. But at the end of the day, it's still evil racism. Different "worlds" (neighbourhoods, schools, health care) doesn't happen because of skin color, it happens because of wealth/poverty. So if you apply a racist filter on top of the (implicit) wealth filter, you're just being racist against poor Asian & white people.

> Different "worlds" (neighbourhoods, schools, health care) doesn't happen because of skin color, it happens because of wealth/poverty. This is false. But let me charitably engage your argument and ask you the following -- if your premise is correct, that means that lower access to education and economic attainment among under represented people of color has nothing to do with racism, and everything to do with...some…

The poverty achievement gap is nearly 3x the race achievement gap. Targeting disadvantaged people seems like the better goal for equity.

Edit: according to this study, there is no race achievement gap—it is entirely accounted for by poverty

https://edsource.org/2019/poverty-levels-in-schools-key-dete...

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#463
post #32

It's telling that this person posted a job listing, interviewed dozens of candidates, realized they couldn't proceed because they hadn't interviewed any minority candidate, tried for months and were still unsuccessful at finding a single one , and the take away wasn't that they should fix their broken recruiting pipeline but that the corporate policy was what was wrong.

Why do you suppose that a non-broken recruiting pipeline would result in more diverse candidates? Do you really think all candidate pools in all professions, and in all locations, are as diverse as the population at all times?

> Do you really think all candidate pools in all professions, and in all locations, are as diverse as the population at all times?

No but I think you should be able to find a single minority candidate over the course of months.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you'll be eager to consider that the reverse is also true, except in that case it's the majority of the pool getting aliened by open favoritism toward ethnic minorities and people with bizarre sexual proclivities. If the outcomes of explicit neutrality aren't good enough for you then you'd better start thinking up a new pretense, because people can see through it quite easily and they aren't going to put up…

I'm sincerely confused about this comment. If I reverse it, I end up with the status quo in a lot of settings: everyone is the same, they don't have to worry about finding ways to interact with people that are different from them, and they get the luxury and safety of being who they are at home while at work. Also, what are "bizarre sexual proclivities"? It sounds like you are living with a thick layer of judgement a…

I'm still not sure I see anything wrong with this picture. Yes being different from other people is hard - the more different the harder. People naturally gravitate towards those they can identify with. The solution to this problem is to develop a coping strategy, not to use force to bend the world around you. People should be entitled to seek out and live in homogenous environments. Just because these are not available to everyone all the time doesn't mean they should never be available to anyone.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#465

I shut my mouth at work and go along with this stuff because I have no choice. I have a family to take care of. I've accepted this. But man, why do they always throw in the line about striving to make the workplace a "diverse and inclusive culture where everyone can bring their full and authentic self"? Everyone knows that's a goddamn lie. I almost want to cry when I read that - it makes me so angry. I haven't been a…

It stops if people refuse to live within the lie.

Read Vaclav Havel's "Power of the powerless".

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Different "worlds" (neighbourhoods, schools, health care) doesn't happen because of skin color, it happens because of wealth/poverty. This is false. But let me charitably engage your argument and ask you the following -- if your premise is correct, that means that lower access to education and economic attainment among under represented people of color has nothing to do with racism, and everything to do with...some…

> What is that thing? The people who study this stuff seriously end up concluding that cultural and domestic factors are the biggest predictor. There are plenty of minority groups who at one point didn't have any stuff, and were discriminated against (Jews, Irish, Italians, Chinese, Japanese, etc.). The main difference seems to be cultural values that prioritize the nuclear family and educational attainment. The SAT…

>If America was so racist, the single most successful ethnic minority wouldn't be Nigerians.

Do you have a source for this? Not for debate, I'm genuinely wondering where the information comes from. From time to time I've heard things about people from Nigeria being hardworking - haven't looked into it very deep though.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#467

I shut my mouth at work and go along with this stuff because I have no choice. I have a family to take care of. I've accepted this. But man, why do they always throw in the line about striving to make the workplace a "diverse and inclusive culture where everyone can bring their full and authentic self"? Everyone knows that's a goddamn lie. I almost want to cry when I read that - it makes me so angry. I haven't been a…

Same here, and it's not just the job, intellectually participating in any community larger than "small and heavily guarded" seems to be subject to the same rules - all of them eventually collapse due to the same reason except people have easier time voting with their feet.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually don't think Tiger parenting is more special than, say, just investing in your kids more broadly. You don't have to be an authoritarian and still get excellent results by caring about the success of your children in society and also having the resources and means in which to perform that investment. More likely is that filters for immigration are very high, which means the average immigrant is more educated…

Tiger parenting is one way of investing in your kid. I agree, there are multiple ways to invest in your kid. >More likely is that filters for immigration are very high Don't agree with this, there are lots of ways to immigrate and I don't think most of them have a sort of wealth/education filter. For example refugees.

Self selection among immigrants is easily the largest factor behind their higher rates of success. Even as a refuge, there were tons of applicants, there is almost surely a reason you are the one who made it. It's in no way an easy process.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#469
post #243

> Imagine you work under a black executive at Microsoft. Does a graph like this one make you more or less likely to think they got to where they are because of their accomplishments? And then they show a graph where only 5.6% of the execs are black (up from 3.7%). It's a pitiful number. Yes, it's still more likely they got there because of their accomplishments, bigot. > From 2021 to 2022, I worked as a manager in Mi…

Well only 4.5% of all people in Washington are black. If we go by country wide population white people white people are not really over presented in MS leadership, Asians are though, as much as blacks are underrepresented.

How many black people from elsewhere in the country can afford to move to seattle, where most of the tech jobs in Washington are?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean? Just about anyone can get into a school, or get a job.

> What does that mean? Worrying that kids may not be able to get into a decent school because they're not diverse enough seems like a a nice problem to have--parents of "diverse" children have much larger worries. > Just about anyone can get into a school, or get a job. Wouldn't that mean that based on the equality of outcomes, it doesn't matter what type of school OP's kids go to, and therefore no reason to worry.

I’m not sure what a “diverse” parent is or how you would know their mind.

I expect that all parents, regardless of demographic factors, worry about their kid getting a good job and going to school.

Post reply on HN