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Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

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121–130 of 157 posts

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dog food isn't very optimal for dogs... Most wild dogs would eat almost exclusively fresh raw meat. Whereas dog food tends to be dried meat with lots of corn as a filler. People wouldn't be able to afford 100% meat dogfood, because dogs eat a lot.

> because dogs eat a lot. Uncooked meat does not have near as many digestible calories density wise as cooked grains. Of course it would be a lot harder for them to become overweight, but the food cost would be tremendous. Remember that obligate carnivores that weigh a lot, like tigers, are incredibly expensive to feed.

> Uncooked meat does not have near as many digestible calories density wise as cooked grains

That seems very unlikely, what with fat and the lipids in cell walls - got a source?

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dog food isn't very optimal for dogs... Most wild dogs would eat almost exclusively fresh raw meat. Whereas dog food tends to be dried meat with lots of corn as a filler. People wouldn't be able to afford 100% meat dogfood, because dogs eat a lot.

> Most wild dogs would eat almost exclusively fresh raw meat Is that right? I understood most wild dogs eat a fair proportion of roots/berries and other herby stuff. A quick dig around: "Unlike cats, dogs aren’t obligate carnivores. They can and do eat vegetable matter. Wild dogs will search for rotten fruit and will eat the semi-digested contents of their prey’s stomach. Some will dig up vegetables and eat grasses a…

I'm not sure where that data is sourced from... Notice it's on the website of a dog food company, who I suspect has an incentive to tell owners that the veg in the dog food is 'natural'.

I suspect if dogs do eat vegetables in the wild, it's only if they can't get enough meat, since their domestication has made them less good hunters. Their wild counterparts, grey wolves, don't seem to ever eat vegetation (except when sick).

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#123
post #29

The evolutionary adaptations oral bacteria have developed to coexist are fascinating. Another example is the known gum disease-causing species, P. gingivalis, can suppress our adaptive immunity [1]. This finding underscores the importance of taking preventative approaches to prevent attachment of biofilm producers (and why daily hygiene is so important), and finding more approaches to biofilm destabilization, like in…

What do you recommend as a generic approach to improve the oral microbiota without test?

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because dogs eat a lot. Uncooked meat does not have near as many digestible calories density wise as cooked grains. Of course it would be a lot harder for them to become overweight, but the food cost would be tremendous. Remember that obligate carnivores that weigh a lot, like tigers, are incredibly expensive to feed.

> Uncooked meat does not have near as many digestible calories density wise as cooked grains That seems very unlikely, what with fat and the lipids in cell walls - got a source?

"Our observation that mice fed cooked meat retained higher body mass despite lesser intake (fresh- or dry- weight basis) indicates that cooking increases the energy extracted per gram of meat fed. This finding contrasts with the predictions of conventional nutritional assays, which on the basis of the Atwater system, return roughly equivalent metabolizable energy densities for raw and cooked meat on a dry-weight basis (Table S1). The problem with the Atwater system is that it ignores changes in di- gestibility, costs of digestion, and costs of immune defense, all of which are likely influenced by food processing. The result is nu- tritional inaccuracy. For example, cooking is known to increase the proportion of starch digested at the terminal ileum before access by most gut bacteria (2). Starch that resists digestion in the small intestine delivers only a proportion of its metabolizable energy to the consumer, because the short-chain fatty acids produced during bacterial fermentation of starch generate less ATP than the glu- cose produced by starch hydrolysis in the small intestine. Addi- tionally, the fatty acids are consumed as fuel for gut bacteria, and there are further losses from the production of combustible gases (40–42). Cooking, thus, increases the energetic value of starch to an extent greater than is represented by the Atwater system. Such differences between the calorie values determined by the Atwater system and the physiological outcomes observed in this study are relevant for the manipulation of diets to increased or decreased caloric loading."

* Energetic consequences of thermal and nonthermal food processing Carmody, R. N., Weintraub, G. S., Wrangham, R. W., Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences2011 / 11 Vol. 108; Iss. 48

* https://booksc.org/book/37997813/2fc522

Note that the 'Atwater' system is referring to the traditional method used to determine caloric content created in the 1890s which burns food and measures the heat obtained from it.

Here is an interesting article about this issue:

* https://www.economist.com/1843/2019/02/28/death-of-the-calor...

I apologize for the single source -- I believed that the science was far more settled on this issue than it appears to be. Regardless, I hope it proves informative for further research if you decide to pursue it.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#125

Anecdotally, I’m having one hell of a time with my 3yo and 5yo’s teeth. No juice. No soda. No bad snacks. Lots of dentist recommended foods and snacks. Full brushing and flossing regimen. Fluoride. Dentist applied special fluoride treatments. Trust me when I say we’re doing everything right. And yet they’re 3 and 5 and have had so many cavities. I asked my dad about it and he said my brothers and I had, frankly, poor…

antibiotics can do this.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#126

Anecdotally, I’m having one hell of a time with my 3yo and 5yo’s teeth. No juice. No soda. No bad snacks. Lots of dentist recommended foods and snacks. Full brushing and flossing regimen. Fluoride. Dentist applied special fluoride treatments. Trust me when I say we’re doing everything right. And yet they’re 3 and 5 and have had so many cavities. I asked my dad about it and he said my brothers and I had, frankly, poor…

Is it really a big deal though? Their teeth are going to be replaced anyway. If it happens in the adult teeth, then worry. Serious question -- I don't have children and it is tough to tell the difference between 'actual problem' and 'parents worry too much'.

It is probably in the job definition of a parent to worry too much. Seriously, I always thought my parents were constantly overreacting, but now I get it. Because for the parent its also often tough to tell, and its also really easy to underestimate problems, especially when they are young. So better safe than sorry, I guess.

For example, really young children can dehydrate to the point of requiring immediate hospitalization within 24 hours, which happens quite fast when they are sick.

Source: an actual anxiety ridden parent.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most wild dogs would eat almost exclusively fresh raw meat Is that right? I understood most wild dogs eat a fair proportion of roots/berries and other herby stuff. A quick dig around: "Unlike cats, dogs aren’t obligate carnivores. They can and do eat vegetable matter. Wild dogs will search for rotten fruit and will eat the semi-digested contents of their prey’s stomach. Some will dig up vegetables and eat grasses a…

I'm not sure where that data is sourced from... Notice it's on the website of a dog food company, who I suspect has an incentive to tell owners that the veg in the dog food is 'natural'. I suspect if dogs do eat vegetables in the wild, it's only if they can't get enough meat, since their domestication has made them less good hunters. Their wild counterparts, grey wolves, don't seem to ever eat vegetation (except when…

Fair enough but I've heard this (wild dog herbivory) from several sources. I can't find better, sorry.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#128
post #14
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are we a result of similar microorganisms? I'm no biologist, but from what I've read: Probably not. A really important fact about multicellular life is that each cell is genetically identical to any other cell in the organism. Otherwise, different cells will start competing with one another, until the relationship falls apart. In nature, symbiosis only works because each cell has an independent means of reproductio…

If you were to pull a random cell from your body, there's a 90% chance it doesn't contain human DNA: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-...

A bit clickbait-y. Do you consider your digestive cavity a part of your body or is your body all the stuff around it?

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#129

Anecdotally, I’m having one hell of a time with my 3yo and 5yo’s teeth. No juice. No soda. No bad snacks. Lots of dentist recommended foods and snacks. Full brushing and flossing regimen. Fluoride. Dentist applied special fluoride treatments. Trust me when I say we’re doing everything right. And yet they’re 3 and 5 and have had so many cavities. I asked my dad about it and he said my brothers and I had, frankly, poor…

Face masks during Covid. Massive contribution to cavities in young children.

Re: Microbes that cause cavities can form superorganisms able to ‘crawl’

#130

Anecdotally, I’m having one hell of a time with my 3yo and 5yo’s teeth. No juice. No soda. No bad snacks. Lots of dentist recommended foods and snacks. Full brushing and flossing regimen. Fluoride. Dentist applied special fluoride treatments. Trust me when I say we’re doing everything right. And yet they’re 3 and 5 and have had so many cavities. I asked my dad about it and he said my brothers and I had, frankly, poor…

Face masks during Covid. Massive contribution to cavities in young children.

There's no evidence of this, of course.
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